Why Can’t All Airlines Continue CEWS?

[dash8driver]

I know I have posted already about this in the Sky Regional Forum, however management at Sky has not provided a clear answer as to why. With Air Canada I could not find anywhere online why they ended the CEWS either?
I was therefore looking to see from everyone’s background and industry experience why an airline, such as Air Canada and Sky, would not continue?
Thank you all!!

[Daniel Cooper]

The intention of the program is to keep employees on the payroll ready for immediate bounce back of services. If you don't think that will happen with your business it might be considered abuse of the program to keep drawing money.

[rudder]

The intention of the program is to keep employees on the payroll ready for immediate bounce back of services.

That is not the exact stated intention. Here it is right from the Government of Canada CEWS website -

“This wage subsidy will enable you to re-hire workers previously laid off as a result of COVID-19, help prevent further job losses, and better position you to resume normal operations following the crisis.”

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... rm=%2Bcews

Any potential employer CEWS claimant is free to submit for a pre-determination of eligibility.

[Blue42]

I know I have posted already about this in the Sky Regional Forum, however management at Sky has not provided a clear answer as to why. With Air Canada I could not find anywhere online why they ended the CEWS either?
I was therefore looking to see from everyone’s background and industry experience why an airline, such as Air Canada and Sky, would not continue?
Thank you all!!

In AC case they would still be paying benefits and pension, that’s still a huge cost to the airline.

[rudder]

In AC case they would still be paying benefits and pension, that’s still a huge cost to the airline.

It is not an AC issue. It is a collective agreement issue. Therefore, the bargaining agent and the employer could agree to an accommodation.

Jazz and ALPA figured it out. Perhaps other Jazz unions figured it out as well.

[Blueshift]

I'm not sure what the legality of this would be, but after doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations, it appears that if AC were to instead have us pay out- of-pocket for our pension and benefits, we'd still make more on CEWS than we would on CERB (without accounting for the optional out-of-pocket benefit payments). It'd certainly be nice remaining employed with benefits, all while building our pension and seniority (for pay and vacation purposes).

[tailgunner]

POLITICS.

Justin Trudeau has consistently chased votes with his targeted programs and payouts.
CR and the entire industry have been waiting for, and expecting (hoping) for a governmental support program. If we are to believe CR, every other top 20 airline has been given direct support from their respective governments. The big US airlines have been aided directly. The flag carriers of Europe have also been supported. These form future, direct competition with Canadian carriers. Justin Trudeau is putting the entire industry at a disadvantage. Canadian carriers will be using up most of their liquidity to merely survive, while their competitors keep their liquidity to hit the ground running after this pandemic.
CR probably used the CEWS program to try and gain support from JT. When JT announced further support, in the billions, for University students,(voters) and seniors (voters), but nothing for aviation employers, the die was cast.
CR ended the program, and 23000 AC employees are now fully on JT’s tab via unemployment insurance.
Cheers

[rudder]

POLITICS.

CR ended the program, and 23000 AC employees are now fully on JT’s tab via unemployment insurance.
Cheers

Technically - CR simply opted to NOT apply for continued subscription to CEWS. And also technically - for laid off staff it will be CERB then EI. But yes, they are all being moved off AC payroll to government income assistance programs.

An additional open issue is Federal notice requirements (and severance) for large group layoffs. AC application for relief from these requirements is still outstanding. AC also subject to some layoff notice and pay requirements by several collective agreements (unless AC attempts to invoke Force Majeure). I believe that FM may alter notice but not severance payments.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

I'm not sure what the legality of this would be, but after doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations, it appears that if AC were to instead have us pay out- of-pocket for our pension and benefits, we'd still make more on CEWS than we would on CERB (without accounting for the optional out-of-pocket benefit payments). It'd certainly be nice remaining employed with benefits, all while building our pension and seniority (for pay and vacation purposes).

While on CEWS at Sunwing, we have to pay out-of pocket for our health and dental benefits, we can't contribute to our company RRSP program (our pension), and we cease to accrue years of service for pay and vacation purposes.

[teacher]

Companies in a free market economy are not charities. They exist for 1 purpose and that is too make money. If they can make or lose less money by laying off than that is what’s going to happen. It shouldn’t be a shocker or in the general public opinion, “a disgrace”, that layoffs occur when there is significant drop in revenue.

Justin Trudeau has made it very clear who and what he supports. Those that will vote for him, money losing green industries, any company in Quebec regardless of how dirty (cement plants that pollute as much as an oil sands facility), or corrupt (Bombardier and SNC) and those who will exchange free money for votes.

It is also clear who JT will NOT support. Anything in Alberta and Saskatchewan, small businesses (small business tax grab from a couple years ago) anything oil and gas related (canceled pipelines, carbon taxes....etc), those that believe in tackling real crime (going after legal gun owners while reducing enforcement and sentences for illegal firearms and gang related crime) and the airline industry.

Like it or not we are stuck with a big government anti business administration for a while.

[boeingboy]

The reason not everyone is continuing with CEWS is simple....the rules for it have changed.

When the government extended the CEWS program - they also made some changes to it. Companies now have to prove they need you on the CEWS for when they restart - and not as a handout. For the bigger companies like WJ and AC - they cant justify keeping everyone on board....especially when everyone is saying the air travel will not pick up to previous levels for years. If those are going to be laid off anyways - they need to do it now instead of doing it in the fall - or whenever things open up again.

While on CEWS at Sunwing, we have to pay out-of pocket for our health and dental benefits,

That's for the extended and optional policies. You are still getting the core plans aren't you?

[DHC-1 Jockey]

While on CEWS at Sunwing, we have to pay out-of pocket for our health and dental benefits,

That's for the extended and optional policies. You are still getting the core plans aren't you?

No, we had to choose which plan to use/switch to while on CEWS, or opt out all-together. We still have to pay out-of-pocket for Enhanced or Core. A lot of pilots downgraded to Core as Enhanced had lots of paramedical services included (massage, physiotherapy, better dental, etc) were closed due to COVID anyways, so why pay for Enhanced when you can't use it?

[boeingboy]

No, we had to choose which plan to use/switch to while on CEWS, or opt out all-together. We still have to pay out-of-pocket for Enhanced or Core. A lot of pilots downgraded to Core as Enhanced had lots of paramedical services included (massage, physiotherapy, better dental, etc) were closed due to COVID anyways, so why pay for Enhanced when you can't use it?

Huh. Thanks.

[smooth]

totally agree with ya

Companies in a free market economy are not charities. They exist for 1 purpose and that is too make money. If they can make or lose less money by laying off than that is what’s going to happen. It shouldn’t be a shocker or in the general public opinion, “a disgrace”, that layoffs occur when there is significant drop in revenue.

Justin Trudeau has made it very clear who and what he supports. Those that will vote for him, money losing green industries, any company in Quebec regardless of how dirty (cement plants that pollute as much as an oil sands facility), or corrupt (Bombardier and SNC) and those who will exchange free money for votes.

It is also clear who JT will NOT support. Anything in Alberta and Saskatchewan, small businesses (small business tax grab from a couple years ago) anything oil and gas related (canceled pipelines, carbon taxes....etc), those that believe in tackling real crime (going after legal gun owners while reducing enforcement and sentences for illegal firearms and gang related crime) and the airline industry.

Like it or not we are stuck with a big government anti business administration for a while.

[Inverted2]

Yup he's on a mission to destroy Canada and he's doing a good job at it.

Companies in a free market economy are not charities. They exist for 1 purpose and that is too make money. If they can make or lose less money by laying off than that is what’s going to happen. It shouldn’t be a shocker or in the general public opinion, “a disgrace”, that layoffs occur when there is significant drop in revenue.

Justin Trudeau has made it very clear who and what he supports. Those that will vote for him, money losing green industries, any company in Quebec regardless of how dirty (cement plants that pollute as much as an oil sands facility), or corrupt (Bombardier and SNC) and those who will exchange free money for votes.

It is also clear who JT will NOT support. Anything in Alberta and Saskatchewan, small businesses (small business tax grab from a couple years ago) anything oil and gas related (canceled pipelines, carbon taxes....etc), those that believe in tackling real crime (going after legal gun owners while reducing enforcement and sentences for illegal firearms and gang related crime) and the airline industry.

Like it or not we are stuck with a big government anti business administration for a while.