Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

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Did the two person in the flight deck rule increase security ?

Poll ended at Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:20 am

Yes it did
20
20%
No it did not
66
66%
Not certain
14
14%
 
Total votes: 100

tailgunner
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by tailgunner »

Rockie,
The FA’s usually just turned around and pushed on the locked door over and over and over again. The trained pilot actioned the automatic door control.
Cheers.
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Rockie
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by Rockie »

tailgunner wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:44 am Rockie,
The FA’s usually just turned around and pushed on the locked door over and over and over again. The trained pilot actioned the automatic door control.
Cheers.
I think not. Most humans can figure out even a door they've never seen before after two tries, and since it's usually the in-charge up there they all know how to do it. You figured it out right? Did you have to be shown how to open the door your first time in the airplane?

As it pertains to this discussion, all it takes is one sentence to train the cabin crew not only what their job is up there but how to do it. One sentence. And you're implying most cabin crew aren't intelligent enough to get it. Nice.
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Jack Klumpus
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by Jack Klumpus »

To gain access to a flight deck you need to be a pilot or F/A (in my airline anyways).

Two questions:

- how long does it take a pilot to gain access to the flight deck? (From beginning of training until that airline job). (At least a couple of years)

- how long does it take an F/A to gain access? (From off the street to sitting in that cockpit). (A few months, if that).
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by Rockie »

Your training allows you to sit behind the controls and be one of the flight crew, not enter the door. If Transport Canada and your company didn’t trust you to safely fly the airplane you wouldn’t be regardless of any “two in the FD” policy.
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Jack Klumpus
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by Jack Klumpus »

Rockie wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:11 am Your training allows you to sit behind the controls and be one of the flight crew, not enter the door. If Transport Canada and your company didn’t trust you to safely fly the airplane you wouldn’t be regardless of any “two in the FD” policy.
As expected, you missed the point completely. For those who didn’t miss the point, they could see where I’m going with it, and why the entire LH group, and many airlines around the world have gotten away from this procedure.

There is something called risk assessment that airlines do before making procedural s changes.

Having said that, I asked a simple question no? Not being able to answer a simple question tells a lot about someone.
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by Rockie »

The FAA still has the rule. What risk are you talking about? FA’s still come to the flight deck just as much as they always have. Pilots still go to the lav just as much as they always have. Flight attendants have not been banned from the flight deck for any other reason including as JS riders. The flight deck door is opened just as many times and for just as long as it always has.

What risk has been mitigated by ditching the rule?

Perhaps you could explain your point in simpler terms Jack for dummies like me.
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Jack Klumpus
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by Jack Klumpus »

Rockie wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:19 am The FAA still has the rule. What risk are you talking about? FA’s still come to the flight deck just as much as they always have. Pilots still go to the lav just as much as they always have. Flight attendants have not been banned from the flight deck for any other reason including as JS riders. The flight deck door is opened just as many times and for just as long as it always has.

What risk has been mitigated by ditching the rule?

Perhaps you could explain your point in simpler terms Jack for dummies like me.
I asked a simple question, you can’t seem to answer, so no, it seems I am unable to put this in simpler terms, for someone like you.
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Re: Survey on two person in the cockpit rule

Post by Rockie »

I did answer your question Jack. Your training didn’t gain you access to the flight deck, it gained you the seat behind the controls as a qualified pilot. FA training doesn’t gain them access to the flightdeck, it gains them their jumpseat as a qualified flight attendant. Neither your training or theirs has anything uniquely specific to do with the flightdeck door since both of you are able to go through it...right?

Answered another way, the time it takes for both you and an FA to gain access to the flightdeck is however long it takes for either of you to enter the code and someone on the inside to:

A) push the button, or
B) open it manually.

Let’s say 4 seconds - 6 if you’re slow. Kind of the point of this whole conversation, and neither A or B requires astronaut training to accomplish.

Once again, what risk is being mitigated by ditching the rule?
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