Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

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5x5
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by 5x5 »

Rockie wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:08 am “No shirt, no shoes, no service” is universally accepted as a sensible health precaution and nobody loses their minds over it, but somehow masks during a pandemic is a violation of some morons’ rights and a government conspiracy to subjugate citizens and destroy society. It’s amazing how a simple piece of cloth costing a few cents brings out the total assholes among us.
Good grief - “No shirt, no shoes, no service” - has nothing at all to do with health concerns. It was a reaction to the growing hippie culture and provided a means for business owners to restrict access to their businesses at a time when discrimination by any other means was becoming very unacceptable.

As to older people dying - has anyone surveyed them to see if they want the "protection" they're getting? Being completely cut off from their loved ones, isolated and poorly treated isn't something any of the elders I know want. Some folks rant and rave about the poor levels of service and care in seniors housing and yet, to protect the residents, they cut off family completely and in many cases the family are a significant component of the care they receive. Certainly there are some residents that rarely get visitors, but in my experience with both sets of parents and talking with my peers, most have significantly engaged families and get lots of care from them.

For myself, I know I would much rather have my last days/months shortened but spent with my family and friends, than extended by being locked down in solitary confinement. After all, in our current society, isn't solitary the most extreme punishment we can use in our penal system? Solitary As quoted in the preceding article
"The practice of solitary confinement is described by Ivan Zinger, the Correctional Investigator of Canada, as “the most onerous and depriving experience that the state can legitimately administer in Canada.”
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trey kule
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by trey kule »

“science-based”

I love that phrase. Seems to me dear Greta sported a similar saying on her sweatshirt....
Wonder who market tests them.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Rockie »

5x5 wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:43 am Good grief - “No shirt, no shoes, no service” - has nothing at all to do with health concerns.

As to older people dying - has anyone surveyed them to see if they want the "protection" they're getting?
You could be right about the health reason but you miss the point, you don’t see people losing their minds over having to wear shoes and shirts. Nobody’s getting into screaming fits that their rights are being violated for having to put on a shirt like they do with masks which really are for health.

As for your survey, my own unofficial one of elderly family members reveals that none of them would rather die than take the necessary precautions. I guess they’re made of sterner stuff than you are.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

5x5 wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:43 am For myself, I know I would much rather have my last days/months shortened but spent with my family and friends, than extended by being locked down in solitary confinement. After all, in our current society, isn't solitary the most extreme punishment we can use in our penal system? Solitary As quoted in the preceding article
"The practice of solitary confinement is described by Ivan Zinger, the Correctional Investigator of Canada, as “the most onerous and depriving experience that the state can legitimately administer in Canada.”
Being temporarily isolated from family members who are out and about during a pandemic in no way equates to solitary confinement. I have a family member who is a full-time resident in a retirement residence. She still interacts with staff and with other residents in her facility, daily, for meals and a variety of activities. If we want to see her in person, there is a strict protocol around how many visitors, when, where, and for how long, but it's certainly do-able.

Inconvenient? Yes. Solitary confinement? Not even close.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by 2R »

How can anyone make science based decisions using corrupted data and political propaganda ?

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Rockie »

2R wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:15 pm How can anyone make science based decisions using corrupted data and political propaganda ?
By consulting scientists?
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by 5x5 »

Rockie wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:07 pm You could be right about the health reason but you miss the point,
I am right. And you miss my point which is - don't use BS to try and try and make your own points. Comparing something that affects very few shirtless and/or shoeless people only when they are trying to enter a business (primarily a restaurant or a bar) to something that affects the entire world in almost every preson-to-person interaction isn't similar in any way whatsoever.
Rockie wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:07 pm I guess they’re made of sterner stuff than you are.
Perhaps you're right. Knowing you're going to die relatively soon from any one of 100 different things anyway and supporting the world's economy, and to a great extent society, being ravaged to try and avoid one specific cause is pretty stern stuff I guess.

YYZsaabguy - you're right in that they've lightened up somewhat. For the first couple of months it was a complete lockdown and the only others allowed were the caregivers. Very much like only ever seeing the wardens/guards. And what kind of toll has that taken on many of the elderly who were frail to begin with? And couldn't understand why their families had deserted them.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Dronepiper »

This is a silly conversation.

The government puts a price on every life every #@$ING day!!!

JUST LOOK AT AVIATION.

Why is there a difference between 705, 704, 703, 702???

The government places higher value on more people. Why else would 705 carriers be held to a higher standard then 703?? Everything should be the exact same across the board, regardless of how many people are sitting behind you...BUT this doesn't happen because society puts a price on peoples lives. It's really sad when you think about it, but why is COVID any different?
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Rockie »

5x5 wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:58 pmAnd you miss my point which is - don't use BS to try and try and make your own points. Comparing something that affects very few shirtless and/or shoeless people only when they are trying to enter a business (primarily a restaurant or a bar) to something that affects the entire world in almost every preson-to-person interaction isn't similar in any way whatsoever
My point is valid but if you prefer let’s use the “no smoking in public places” example instead even though second hand smoke didn’t have near the immediate health impact this virus has. Some people complained (my mother being one of them) but not too much because they ultimately realized their actions detrimentally affected other people. It’s a shame anti-maskers don’t have the same regard.

We are in a global pandemic and it’s a mask. Put one on without being such a whiny bitch about it. If you refuse and get denied entry into someplace blame your own stupidity, you can be sure that’s what everybody who sees you will be doing.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by fish4life »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.5654062

This is the former MB Chief health officer and current professor.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

How about a look at death statistics in Canada ?

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71- ... 17-eng.htm

This Dashboard compares total deaths in Canada from Jan to May for the period 2014-2020 (deaths from all causes combined)

They came up with an excess death count, meaning how many additional people died in 2020 when compared to the other years. The peak in deaths occurred between mid march and the third week of may but is only apparent for the 65 and older. For the 45 to 64 year group, the deaths in 2020 were significantly lower than other years, because I guess that those who normally fall through the ice while fishing or run into tress with their snowmobiles were locked up at home having tea with their wives.......

You can beak it down by sex, age group, and Province. Have a look.......
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Inverted2 »

Apparently drug overdose deaths and suicides are way up due to the social and economic effects of the Wu-Flu.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Rockie »

Inverted2 wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:01 am Apparently drug overdose deaths and suicides are way up due to the social and economic effects of the Wu-Flu.
Do you have a source for that or do we just take your word for it?
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Rockie »

In these two stories overdoses are actual whereas, and this in no way minimizes the seriousness of the issue, suicides are a "potential risk". It highlights another way this virus affects society, but this isn't an either/or situation. You cannot stop measures against the virus to prevent other societal effects, you have to find a balance and deal with both.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Inverted2 »

Well I’m not going to waste my day arguing with you sir, but a family member is an OPP officer and he said there have been a lot more lately. The suicides you don’t hear about. They just don’t get put in the news because of the hurt to the family members and the whole not shaming mental illness stuff.

The media doesn’t mind telling the audience that a 93 year old died in a nursing home from Covid but they don’t like telling you about the 38 year old who lost his job and stood in front of a CN train.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Rockie »

I said I'm not minimizing the risk, but you have to ask yourself what society would have looked like had we not taken drastic action to get this under control. Hint: The US is giving you a preview.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by palebird »

The US is giving us a preview of what? Are you watching the "news" again? Guess what... when the US elections are all said and done at the end of the year the corona virus will magically dissappear off the radar screens. Imagine that...And this is the reality you should be paying attention to.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by Rockie »

palebird wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:06 pm The US is giving us a preview of what? Are you watching the "news" again? Guess what... when the US elections are all said and done at the end of the year the corona virus will magically dissappear off the radar screens. Imagine that...And this is the reality you should be paying attention to.
Some stupid is unfixable.
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Re: Science-Based Alternative to Ease Quarantine Act Restrictions

Post by photofly »

Inverted2 wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:01 am Apparently drug overdose deaths and suicides are way up due to the social and economic effects of the Wu-Flu.
Your apparent choice between overdoses and suicides, and COVID19 deaths, is a false dichotomy. It's proper to take steps to minimize both.
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