Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by altiplano »

I'll believe they're all coming after they're down the runway at V1... until then anything is possible.

This industry is hammered and it's not getting better. Where's the money going to come from? Who's going to fly in them? Planes are parked as is.

The government can't make a decision to save it's own life, let alone get industry moving again, particularly now that they've circled the wagons after it's been found that they were doling out cash for their pals... meanwhile Air Canada is the only carrier of that size and significance not getting support from their government to remain viable through the imposed shutdowns and restrictions which were beyond their control.

AC had a strong liquidity position going in - pretty much the best of world network airlines - they have even improved it since March, but it can't continue forever.

ACPPA was a joke to begin with, and parts have been repealed for establishing maintenance centres which has been done. The previous interpretation of those provisions aren't coming back.
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tsgas
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by tsgas »

thenoflyzone wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:12 pm
tsgas wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:02 am
You ramp rats should avoid ingesting too much jet fuel . It makes your brain go all fuzzy.
ramp rat? Wow. Now i really hope you don't fly planes for a living, cuz you can't read for shit...

And my perch is about 200ft above your jet fuel, thank you very much.
co-joe wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:56 pm Cutting the 220, and Max orders makes sense. If I had a brand new car on order right now i'd be doing anything any everything I could to get out of the contract.
AC isn't going to cut the A220 orders. CR was bluffing, and it wont work. Besides, the financing for the remainder of the A220s is now secure.

CR threatened to walk away from the CSeries in 2016 if the federal government did not amend the ACPA. If they do cancel the A220 orders, then that amendment needs to be canceled as well, and all the maintenance work that left the country as a result needs to be brought back in house.

https://financialpost.com/transportatio ... snt-passed
More hot air from the Blowhard . :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by thenoflyzone »

altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:07 pm
This industry is hammered and it's not getting better.
Technically, it's getting better. Slowly, but it's getting better.

YUL & YVR June passenger numbers are both 220% above May numbers. So it's encouraging. AC will take delivery of all those A220s. They might defer some batches if they are cash strapped next year or in 2022, but they will take delivery of all the frames, eventually.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by altiplano »

220% of 5% is 11%... you're dreaming if you think that brings more airplane orders...

There needs to be a marked recovery.
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fish4life
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by fish4life »

altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:48 pm 220% of 5% is 11%... you're dreaming if you think that brings more airplane orders...

There needs to be a marked recovery.
Lol thank you for using some reasoning
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goldeneagle
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by goldeneagle »

altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:48 pm 220% of 5% is 11%... you're dreaming if you think that brings more airplane orders...

There needs to be a marked recovery.
Some actual numbers. https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/document ... engers.pdf

Yvr June traffic was 189K pax. June last year was 2.4 million. So traffic is back to 8 percent of last year in June. July may be a bit better but likely not a lot.

The PDF gos back to 92 with monthly stats and even then June had just shy of a million pax.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by altiplano »

goldeneagle wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:04 pm
altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:48 pm 220% of 5% is 11%... you're dreaming if you think that brings more airplane orders...

There needs to be a marked recovery.
Some actual numbers. https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/document ... engers.pdf

Yvr June traffic was 189K pax. June last year was 2.4 million. So traffic is back to 8 percent of last year in June. July may be a bit better but likely not a lot.

The PDF gos back to 92 with monthly stats and even then June had just shy of a million pax.
Right, thanks for clarifying that. I was just basing off that impressive "220%" claim.

100,000% of jack shit squat is still fu ck all...
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fish4life
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by fish4life »

On another note, June is roughly 1/5th of the worst post 9/11 traffic numbers for a comparison.
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by thenoflyzone »

altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:33 pm
goldeneagle wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:04 pm
altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:48 pm 220% of 5% is 11%... you're dreaming if you think that brings more airplane orders...

There needs to be a marked recovery.
Some actual numbers. https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/document ... engers.pdf

Yvr June traffic was 189K pax. June last year was 2.4 million. So traffic is back to 8 percent of last year in June. July may be a bit better but likely not a lot.

The PDF gos back to 92 with monthly stats and even then June had just shy of a million pax.
Right, thanks for clarifying that. I was just basing off that impressive "220%" claim.

100,000% of jack shit squat is still fu ck all...
It's not a claim. It's a mathematical fact. Or would you rather YVR handled 0 passengers in June vs 189k.

He said the industry isn't getting better. Mathematically, it is. The worse months were April and May. The industry is rebounding, and hopefully, by this time next year, if more 220 percentages are up there in the airport stats, we'll be at 50-75% of 2019 levels.
altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:48 pm 220% of 5% is 11%... you're dreaming if you think that brings more airplane orders...

There needs to be a marked recovery.
I never said those numbers will bring "more" aircraft orders. I simply said the industry is recovering, slowly, and that an existing order of A220s won't be canceled. Those are mutually exclusive statements btw. 95% of A220s built are currently flying, as opposed to 5% of all A380s, 25% of all B744s, 30% of all A340s and 65% of all A350s/B787s. Even the CRJs, ERJ's and E-Jets, between all of them, have 305 planes in the desert due to COVID. Why do you think that is?

I'll give you a hint. It has nothing to do with YUL and YVR getting 220% increases.
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Last edited by thenoflyzone on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by altiplano »

thenoflyzone wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:09 pm
altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:33 pm
goldeneagle wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:04 pm

Some actual numbers. https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/document ... engers.pdf

Yvr June traffic was 189K pax. June last year was 2.4 million. So traffic is back to 8 percent of last year in June. July may be a bit better but likely not a lot.

The PDF gos back to 92 with monthly stats and even then June had just shy of a million pax.
Right, thanks for clarifying that. I was just basing off that impressive "220%" claim.

100,000% of jack shit squat is still fu ck all...
It's not a claim. It's a mathematical fact. Or would you rather YVR handled 0 passengers in June vs 189k.

He said the industry isn't getting better. Mathematically, it is.
altiplano wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:48 pm 220% of 5% is 11%... you're dreaming if you think that brings more airplane orders...

There needs to be a marked recovery.
I never said those numbers will bring "more" aircraft orders. I simply said the industry is recovering, slowly, and that an existing order of A220s won't be canceled. Those are mutually exclusive statements btw. 95% of A220s built are currently flying. Why do you think that is?
Exactly, multiples of nothing are still nothing. That's a fact that seems to elude you.

Who's going to ride in them? Who's going to pay for them? So why take them? If things don't turn soon they will have no choice but to walk on orders, cost cutting and maintaining liquidity is king right now. Even then bankruptcy will eventually loom in the 8-12 month range if something doesn't happen to turn this industry around significantly.
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thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by thenoflyzone »

altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Exactly, multiples of nothing are still nothing. That's a fact that seems to elude you..
Except 189k isn't nothing.
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Who's going to ride in them?
The same people who are currently riding in those 30 year old A320s AC has.
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Last edited by thenoflyzone on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by altiplano »

Might as well be because it ain't going to do it wrt supporting the current fleet, let alone more aircraft acquisitions.

Travel up 220% sounds good, but it's up from such a low number that gains of that amount are insignificant. It is more accurate to say travel is still down over 90% if you want to express the real picture.
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fish4life
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by fish4life »

thenoflyzone wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:29 pm
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Exactly, multiples of nothing are still nothing. That's a fact that seems to elude you..
Except 189k isn't nothing.
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Who's going to ride in them?
The same people who are currently riding in those 30 year old A320s AC has.
Those 320’s will service the network for a while as the 220’s get delayed. Why spend millions on new aircraft when every dollar counts and you can keep old tails and run them. There is a reason why post 9/11 airlines weren’t buying new tails.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

Post by altiplano »

thenoflyzone wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:29 pm
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Exactly, multiples of nothing are still nothing. That's a fact that seems to elude you..
Except 189k isn't nothing.
altiplano wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Who's going to ride in them?
The same people who are currently riding in those 30 year old A320s AC has.
Nice late edit...

That's it though... there aren't really any people currently riding in those 320s, in fact most of them are parked. They aren't all 30 years old either...

On top of that, there are a swath of new 737s sitting on the side right now ready to go. They not don't need the 220s and 737s not yet delivered, they can't fill them, they can't afford to park them.
. I'm not so sure why that's hard to grasp.
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