Air Canada threatening to cut A220 orders....

[altiplano]

Bankruptcy was a pot hole for sure. But what brought that on? Largely the Liberal government's forced acquisition of Canadian Airlines.

Bankruptcy wasn't a pothole, it was the end of a company. A new company came out of the ashes, one that purchased the name. The Air Canada of the 90's is a completely dissolved corporate entity. The shares were declared worthless pieces of paper when the company was disolved.

But if you want to continue calling it a success, be my guest. I understand there is an outfit in the US that says the same kind of stuff, bankrupting a casino is a HUGE success...

Incorrect. AC was restructured and reorganized under CCAA/ACE, it is the same company.

[rudder]

Incorrect. AC was restructured and reorganized under CCAA/ACE, it is the same company.

That is not entirely correct.

When AC entered CCAA in April of 2003, it was both the operating company AND the holding company. Several operating units were wholly-owned subsidiaries of AC (Aeroplan/ACTS/Jazz/etc).

When AC exited CCAA in September of 2004, AC itself became a wholly-owned subsidiary of ACE (the new holding company) and existed on the same corporate level as its previous subsidiaries. These subsidiaries, and AC, were all spun off to the benefit of the ACE shareholders (the unsecured creditors, DIP lender, and most notably the equity sponsor Cerberus Capital).

[goldeneagle]

That is not entirely correct.

When AC entered CCAA in April of 2003, it was both the operating company AND the holding company. Several operating units were wholly-owned subsidiaries of AC (Aeroplan/ACTS/Jazz/etc).

When AC exited CCAA in September of 2004, AC itself became a wholly-owned subsidiary of ACE (the new holding company) and existed on the same corporate level as its previous subsidiaries. These subsidiaries, and AC, were all spun off to the benefit of the ACE shareholders (the unsecured creditors, DIP lender, and most notably the equity sponsor Cerberus Capital).

Almost correct. When the new structure under ACE was set up, a new corp was created as a subsidiary. Assets (including name) were transferred into this new subsidiary, and the old corp became a worthless number company. That was how the publicly traded shares were washed out of the system.

[Bacunayagua]

Gentlemen,

Discussing the particulars of how big red came out of the other side sin't going to change the fact that the same thing will happen now, that happened then. The pilot group will once again bed over, and take it without lube.

[Gino Under]

Maybe ...
and only a quarter of its former number will have to worry about bending over. Because the remaining 3/4ths will still be on the outside looking in, wishing they could also bend over.
This is only going to get uglier.

Gino

[tsgas]

Maybe ...
and only a quarter of its former number will have to worry about bending over. Because the remaining 3/4ths will still be on the outside looking in, wishing they could also bend over.
This is only going to get uglier.

Gino

True , they won't have a job but they can keep their inflated ego.

[sanjet]

If the first vaccines that are released to the public end of this year don’t go as planned, most of us are screwed in this business.

Other way, if it’s a good vaccine, get ready for a full recovery in 2-3 years.

[digits_]

If the first vaccines that are released to the public end of this year don’t go as planned, most of us are screwed in this business.

Other way, if it’s a good vaccine, get ready for a full recovery in 2-3 years.

Would you be comfortable taking a rushed vaccine for this disease?
I personally wouldn't, and I don't think I'm the only one.

[sanjet]

Would you be comfortable taking a rushed vaccine for this disease?
I personally wouldn't, and I don't think I'm the only one.

After a few months if there are little signs of side effects, I think a lot of people will start taking it.

It’s the bandwagon effect, just like the toilet paper craze.

[fish4life]

If the first vaccines that are released to the public end of this year don’t go as planned, most of us are screwed in this business.

Other way, if it’s a good vaccine, get ready for a full recovery in 2-3 years.

Would you be comfortable taking a rushed vaccine for this disease?
I personally wouldn't, and I don't think I'm the only one.

Ya you’d hate to get autism...........

[digits_]

If the first vaccines that are released to the public end of this year don’t go as planned, most of us are screwed in this business.

Other way, if it’s a good vaccine, get ready for a full recovery in 2-3 years.

Would you be comfortable taking a rushed vaccine for this disease?
I personally wouldn't, and I don't think I'm the only one.

Ya you’d hate to get autism...........

There is a big difference between not wanting to use a vaccin that has been used and test for decades that protects you against deadly diseases vs not wanting to use a vaccin that is being released under gigantic economical and political pressure, will only have been around for a few months, and that protects you against a disease that is not all that deadly.

[thenoflyzone]

Sticking a fork in the TRZ transaction will be the next jab at the Liberal led coalition government (on the heels of declaring 20,000 staff as surplus and relegated to government income assistance).

the TRZ transaction is good as dead. And besides, using that as a threat is not going to work either.

Transat doesn't need AC. It's not like TS was on the brink of bankruptcy. If I remember correctly, the Competition Bureau report that came out a few months ago even mentioned something to that effect.

Besides, as long as Legault is Premier of Quebec, he will never let TS go down.

Yes they are moving to a more socialist way of doing everything. More government in your face and his “we will take care of you” mentality. Ask a Venezuelan how that worked out.

Are you comparing Canadian politicians to their Venezuelan counterparts and think they are both equal in terms of level of corruption? Please, don't make ignorant comments.

[tsgas]

Sticking a fork in the TRZ transaction will be the next jab at the Liberal led coalition government (on the heels of declaring 20,000 staff as surplus and relegated to government income assistance).

the TRZ transaction is good as dead. And besides, using that as a threat is not going to work either.

Transat doesn't need AC. It's not like TS was on the brink of bankruptcy. If I remember correctly, the Competition Bureau report that came out a few months ago even mentioned something to that effect.

Besides, as long as Legault is Premier of Quebec, he will never let TS go down.

Yes they are moving to a more socialist way of doing everything. More government in your face and his “we will take care of you” mentality. Ask a Venezuelan how that worked out.

Are you comparing Canadian politicians to their Venezuelan counterparts and think they are both equal in terms of level of corruption? Please, don't make ignorant comments.

Can you say "WE charity scandal ".

[thenoflyzone]

Can you say "WE charity scandal ".

Can you say "drop in a bucket" compared to what is going on in Venezuela. He couldn't have picked 2 countries further apart in the corruption spectrum, apart from like New Zealand and Somalia. Every country has some level of corruption. Canada is no exception. However comparing us to Venezuela is laughable at best.

[tsgas]

Can you say "WE charity scandal ".

Can you say "drop in a bucket" compared to what is going on in Venezuela. He couldn't have picked 2 countries further apart in the corruption spectrum, apart from like New Zealand and Somalia. Every country has some level of corruption. Canada is no exception. However comparing us to Venezuela is laughable at best.

Where did I mention Venezuela. Try to read before you post something unrelated to what I wrote.

[altiplano]

You can't compare Canadian politicians with Venezuelan...

Quebec politicians on the other make Chavez/Maduro look pretty good!

[thenoflyzone]

Can you say "WE charity scandal ".

Can you say "drop in a bucket" compared to what is going on in Venezuela. He couldn't have picked 2 countries further apart in the corruption spectrum, apart from like New Zealand and Somalia. Every country has some level of corruption. Canada is no exception. However comparing us to Venezuela is laughable at best.

Where did I mention Venezuela. Try to read before you post something unrelated to what I wrote.

Are you dense ?

Where did I mention that "YOU" mentioned Venezuela. My earlier comment to which you replied was targeted at Inverted2.

I hope you dont fly planes for a living......sheesh...

[co-joe]

Cutting the 220, and Max orders makes sense. If I had a brand new car on order right now i'd be doing anything any everything I could to get out of the contract.

[tsgas]

Can you say "drop in a bucket" compared to what is going on in Venezuela. He couldn't have picked 2 countries further apart in the corruption spectrum, apart from like New Zealand and Somalia. Every country has some level of corruption. Canada is no exception. However comparing us to Venezuela is laughable at best.

Where did I mention Venezuela. Try to read before you post something unrelated to what I wrote.

Are you dense ?

Where did I mention that "YOU" mentioned Venezuela. My earlier comment to which you replied was targeted at Inverted2.

I hope you dont fly planes for a living......sheesh...

You ramp rats should avoid ingesting too much jet fuel . It makes your brain go all fuzzy.

[thenoflyzone]

You ramp rats should avoid ingesting too much jet fuel . It makes your brain go all fuzzy.

ramp rat? Wow. Now i really hope you don't fly planes for a living, cuz you can't read for shit...

And my perch is about 200ft above your jet fuel, thank you very much.

Cutting the 220, and Max orders makes sense. If I had a brand new car on order right now i'd be doing anything any everything I could to get out of the contract.

AC isn't going to cut the A220 orders. CR was bluffing, and it wont work. Besides, the financing for the remainder of the A220s is now secure.

CR threatened to walk away from the CSeries in 2016 if the federal government did not amend the ACPPA. If they do cancel the A220 orders, then that amendment needs to be canceled as well, and all the maintenance work that left the country as a result needs to be brought back in house.

https://financialpost.com/transportatio ... snt-passed