Loon-A-Tic wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:58 pm
Every Skipper that has been “downgraded” is directly impact when the guy to his left picks up draft or OT. Every FO that is living on CEWS is directly impacted when a colleague picks up draft or OT. It might be a very “popular” conversation or post but it’s the truth.
It's a complete trickle down effect! Absolutely.
It's not just those furloughed, you make a great point.
We have no unity in this country it's sad. I'd love to see how Delta pilots would take to their colleagues doing VO during furloughs. My guess is not too kindly. But then again we're Canada and "cAnT cOmPArE tO tHE UsA"...
You really do have to stop being an ass-hole... working overtime, when rank and file are layed-off is wrong!
Geeze, what's wrong with you over-time retards?
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Last edited by EPR on Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think it is high time we stopped blaming our fellow pilots as bottom feeders and put the blame where it really is due - corporate greed. You must realize that this race to the bottom didn't happen overnight or because one pilot was desperate to get a job. This is a systematic destruction happening that has been going on for many years. A simple example would point at WestJet who made the Encore brand to undercut their WJPA and Swoop to thwart upstart ULCCs.
Bickering between us is exactly what these greedy investment bankers want so that we never realize who is truly to blame - them! How else can you explain the rising pay of CEOs while pilot pay has been steadily on the decline for decades now?
PeterParker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:58 am
I think it is high time we stopped blaming our fellow pilots as bottom feeders and put the blame where it really is due - corporate greed. You must realize that this race to the bottom didn't happen overnight or because one pilot was desperate to get a job. This is a systematic destruction happening that has been going on for many years. A simple example would point at WestJet who made the Encore brand to undercut their WJPA and Swoop to thwart upstart ULCCs.
Bickering between us is exactly what these greedy investment bankers want so that we never realize who is truly to blame - them! How else can you explain the rising pay of CEOs while pilot pay has been steadily on the decline for decades now?
Yes but out of the two, who can we actually influence to make change? Our "CEOs" or fellow pilots. Sure it's the uppers fault but it's also our own for letting it get there. Personally though I wouldn't go as far as calling them bottom feeders, we have no idea that person's situation. May have 3 kids to feed etc.
As the initiator of this post I'll accept that "Bottom Feeder" may have been a bit confrontational but it got everyone talking. Equally no one of us knows the other person's situation, however we are all in this together. While its easy to point a finger at others or management but we also need to take responsibility for our actions and the affect they may be having on friends and colleagues.
flyingcanuck wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:59 am
Yes but out of the two, who can we actually influence to make change? Our "CEOs" or fellow pilots. Sure it's the uppers fault but it's also our own for letting it get there. Personally though I wouldn't go as far as calling them bottom feeders, we have no idea that person's situation. May have 3 kids to feed etc.
Honestly speaking it would be easier to influence the CEOs by unionizing and using strong representatives talking for the rest. Every time someone talks against unions, they must be reminded that we were better off when we had unions than we are now.
Read somewhere on the internet and it best summarizes the whole thing. Unions are like condoms; when someone says you don’t need them that’s the sure sign that you absolutely do!
flyingcanuck wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:59 am
Yes but out of the two, who can we actually influence to make change? Our "CEOs" or fellow pilots. Sure it's the uppers fault but it's also our own for letting it get there. Personally though I wouldn't go as far as calling them bottom feeders, we have no idea that person's situation. May have 3 kids to feed etc.
Honestly speaking it would be easier to influence the CEOs by unionizing and using strong representatives talking for the rest. Every time someone talks against unions, they must be reminded that we were better off when we had unions than we are now.
Read somewhere on the internet and it best summarizes the whole thing. Unions are like condoms; when someone says you don’t need them that’s the sure sign that you absolutely do!
CR is apparently very against AC pilots moving to ALPA. What more reason do you need to do it then?
flyingcanuck wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:59 am
Yes but out of the two, who can we actually influence to make change? Our "CEOs" or fellow pilots. Sure it's the uppers fault but it's also our own for letting it get there. Personally though I wouldn't go as far as calling them bottom feeders, we have no idea that person's situation. May have 3 kids to feed etc.
Honestly speaking it would be easier to influence the CEOs by unionizing and using strong representatives talking for the rest. Every time someone talks against unions, they must be reminded that we were better off when we had unions than we are now.
Read somewhere on the internet and it best summarizes the whole thing. Unions are like condoms; when someone says you don’t need them that’s the sure sign that you absolutely do!
CR is apparently very against AC pilots moving to ALPA. What more reason do you need to do it then?
I am quite certain CR couldn't care less what union the pilots are with. He has bigger issues and the company doesn't revolve around pilots as much as we think it should
You know, you guys are funny. You talk about unity and doing the right thing while your fellow colleagues are furloughed and watching each other's backs etc.... yet you are incredibly divided on this forum and many of you are so quick to insult, rip apart and criticize others for their opinions that aren't matching yours.
Tell you what. Why don't all the senior pilots making bank freakin retire. That would open up what, 500-1000 positions at AC alone? What about WJ, Sunwing, TS, Flair, Canadian North etc? You had your turn, now step aside and let the young guys who are furloughed have their moment. I don't see much of that happening, yet you guys want to crucify guys for picking up OT. LOL!
No, pilots will never be unified. You're all out for yourselves and you're just too blind to see it.
rooster wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:50 am
You know, you guys are funny. You talk about unity and doing the right thing while your fellow colleagues are furloughed and watching each other's backs etc.... yet you are incredibly divided on this forum and many of you are so quick to insult, rip apart and criticize others for their opinions that aren't matching yours.
Tell you what. Why don't all the senior pilots making bank freakin retire. That would open up what, 500-1000 positions at AC alone? What about WJ, Sunwing, TS, Flair, Canadian North etc? You had your turn, now step aside and let the young guys who are furloughed have their moment. I don't see much of that happening, yet you guys want to crucify guys for picking up OT. LOL!
No, pilots will never be unified. You're all out for yourselves and you're just too blind to see it.
Gino Under wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:40 pm
When most, if not all in the aviation sector, are both future and financially fuct, you’re the one who decides who’s a “bottom feeder”???
Shouldn’t we, individually, in our own specific circumstances, decide what’s best for us and our families?
Maybe more considerate thought is a wiser investment than just hitting the keyboard.
Gino Under
P.S. it’s ‘affecting’ not “effecting”.
Well regardless I think we can all agree SkyCare is the bottommost bottom feeder.
Why is SkyCare considered the bottom? I just started with them. New FO jobs are very far and few, and I had a decent amount of hours from pipelines and jumpers so I was direct into the FO position without ground time. Most of the people seem pretty straight forward and I was able to elect which base I preferred. Okay yeah the training bond is not ideal, but where else am I going for the next 1 to 2 years with no multi IFR time? PM if you want to chat offline, I’d like to hear your insights.
Gino Under wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:40 pm
When most, if not all in the aviation sector, are both future and financially fuct, you’re the one who decides who’s a “bottom feeder”???
Shouldn’t we, individually, in our own specific circumstances, decide what’s best for us and our families?
Maybe more considerate thought is a wiser investment than just hitting the keyboard.
Gino Under
P.S. it’s ‘affecting’ not “effecting”.
Well regardless I think we can all agree SkyCare is the bottommost bottom feeder.
Why is SkyCare considered the bottom? I just started with them. New FO jobs are very far and few, and I had a decent amount of hours from pipelines and jumpers so I was direct into the FO position without ground time. Most of the people seem pretty straight forward and I was able to elect which base I preferred. Okay yeah the training bond is not ideal, but where else am I going for the next 1 to 2 years with no multi IFR time? PM if you want to chat offline, I’d like to hear your insights.
Tell you what. Why don't all the senior pilots making bank freakin retire. That would open up what, 500-1000 positions at AC alone? What about WJ, Sunwing, TS, Flair, Canadian North etc? You had your turn, now step aside and let the young guys who are furloughed have their moment. I don't see much of that happening, yet you guys want to crucify guys for picking up OT. LOL!
Tell you what. It is not old guys crucifying anyone. It is the entitled little snots that want their “fair” share
The “senior pilots” went through layoffs. More than once for many. Yet you feel so entitled that they should just step out of the way so you can move up the seniority list.
Putin your time and rise up the list by working hard. Not suggesting other people move out of your way.
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Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
I've flown with enough guys near the top of the list who are not in a position to retire because they have the likes of Royal, Greyhound, and Canada 3000 on their resume. Lots of guys zigged when they should have zagged. Don't assume that just because they're making over $200k that they're well off and debt free. A little empathy in both directions goes a long way.
PeterParker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:58 am
I think it is high time we stopped blaming our fellow pilots as bottom feeders and put the blame where it really is due - corporate greed. You must realize that this race to the bottom didn't happen overnight or because one pilot was desperate to get a job. This is a systematic destruction happening that has been going on for many years. A simple example would point at WestJet who made the Encore brand to undercut their WJPA and Swoop to thwart upstart ULCCs.
Bickering between us is exactly what these greedy investment bankers want so that we never realize who is truly to blame - them! How else can you explain the rising pay of CEOs while pilot pay has been steadily on the decline for decades now?
Putting it here again in case some of the later posters didn’t read this part. Bolded for effect.
For the guys who are retiring early, presumably because they can afford so, total bro move to let the new guys take the spot. That being said, I wouldn’t hold it against anyone who doesn’t. The older guys especially worked very hard over the decades, are absolutely entitled to the job they have, and don’t owe anything to anyone else.
Skyhunter wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:27 pm
Dude, you have no idea if other people’s financial circumstances. Maybe the are paying for a very sick parents old folks home bills. Maybe their spouse has a business that is losing thousands of dollars a month. Perhaps their kids need an expensive medication that isn’t covered.
All of which we be more important than not working in the slim hopes it will help someone else.
Pretty f**** judgmental.
What about the financial circumstances of all the furloughed pilots? Especially those who left higher paid jobs to deal with flat pay shit, only to get laid off and now take even longer to get to formula pay?
Just don't do VO. If you care at all about your fellow co-workers. If the company can't cover with VO they will start to recall and run larger reserve coverage. Every day sooner the get our furloughed brothers and sisters back is better. That's one more day of YOS progression, another day of pension contribution and benefits coverage.
Say no to VO.
Dude, I am feel bad for everyone laid off. I do, but honestly I have 12 years to retirement. I am way more worried about my pension and getting my financial house in order. I served my time in the military putting country first. Sorry to say it is now about me first.
My wife’s business lost 5k month for several months and even now is she can’t pay herself. We have 20 horses to feed this winter and rent to pay on the riding facility where the business is.
I have not flow in over 6 months, but if when I start up again and I get the chance for draft I will be taking it, and I will not be feeling guilty about.
