Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

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Fanblade
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Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by Fanblade »

There is a lot of reporting coming out that speculates that the Transportation sector as well as oil and gas will be targeted this fall by the liberals.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jack-m ... 5bd6ced7d/

The bigger question is whether the federal government will pursue much tougher regulations that will particularly impact on transportation and oil and gas sectors. These two economic sectors made up 52 per cent of Canada’s GHG emissions in 2018. Canada’s emissions have been virtually flat at 720 megatonnes (MT) since 2005, so any chance of reaching a 30-per-cent reduction in emissions by 2030, as the Liberals have promised to do, looks highly unrealistic without heavily affecting these two sectors.

the Liberal government may adopt even tougher targets pursuing stronger measures not currently in use. The most important would be the Clean Fuel Standard (CFS), which features an equivalent carbon tax of $350 per tonne. This regulation would be on top of the $50-per-tonne carbon tax that is typically touted as the best economic approach to achieving climate objectives. The CFS would substantially increase heating and transportation costs for households and businesses,

Like Bill C-69, the CFS regulations can be used to tighten the noose on the oil/gas and transportation sectors in the next decade. So instead of relying on a $350 carbon price applied to all emissions nationally, which would be highly unpopular, the federal government will use the CFS in the belief that it is politically easier to pick on one region and specific sectors of Canada.

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Kosiw
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by Kosiw »

Reap what ye sow :rolleyes:
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Fanblade
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

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dhc#
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by dhc# »

Considering both Air Canada and Air Transat are based in Quebec, this would truly be a ballsy move by Turdo (the MP for Papineau), a giant F U to our industry :finga:
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Inverted2
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by Inverted2 »

If you voted liberal, you get what you deserve. No sympathy for anyone who voted this hippie goofball in.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by planebored »

The Liberals really need to read the room.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by montado »

Who needs jobs, what airlines need a bailout? Trudeau is brewing a solution as we speak!

Its called UBI!

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/ ... -1.5102320

:roll:
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by YYCAME »

I'm curious if people are opposed to a carbon tax because they don't believe that it will actually help clean up the problem or because they don't believe that the government can be trusted to use it for that purpose? Or do people believe climate change is a hoax?

I personally am okay with the idea that if I make a mess that I should help clean it up, so a carbon tax seems like a soft approach to environmental messes rather than hard rules. As a customer it helps me make better choices if prices accurately reflect the cost of something. An example is the bottle levy tax that helps channel public disposal of waste. In the same way I would hope that a carbon tax helps pushes people to do their part, and if not others can make money by cleaning up for them.
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GoHomeLeg
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by GoHomeLeg »

YYCAME wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:24 am I'm curious if people are opposed to a carbon tax because they don't believe that it will actually help clean up the problem or because they don't believe that the government can be trusted to use it for that purpose? Or do people believe climate change is a hoax?

I personally am okay with the idea that if I make a mess that I should help clean it up, so a carbon tax seems like a soft approach to environmental messes rather than hard rules. As a customer it helps me make better choices if prices accurately reflect the cost of something. An example is the bottle levy tax that helps channel public disposal of waste. In the same way I would hope that a carbon tax helps pushes people to do their part, and if not others can make money by cleaning up for them.
Yes they all think those things.

The purpose is to forces companies and people to make an effort to find was to make a net reduction.

As pilots we do this by taxing single engine, delaying the start and reducing the usage of the APU and econ
speeds.

Some pilots don't care. For example, I see pilots starting the APU right away after they exit the runway even though they have a long taxi to the gate. When you say something to them, their typical response is, "I don't care, it's not my fuel" or "f*** this company, they're not going to pay me more" or something along those lines.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by shimmydampner »

Inverted2 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:37 pm If you voted liberal, you get what you deserve. No sympathy for anyone who voted this hippie goofball in.
I'm not sure why anyone would need your sympathy regarding a carbon tax, but it's disturbing to see these burgeoning caustic partisan attitudes grow more prevalent in this country. It's the same forces that have helped turn the USA from a flawed superpower into a complete dumpster fire.
In spite of all the amazing technological advances in aviation power plant efficiency, we're still stuck filling them with a finite resource, the burning of which isn't good for our environment. Maybe a tax will hasten technological change away from fossil fuel. Until then, people will still fly.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by Mach1 »

YYCAME wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:24 am I'm curious if people are (1) opposed to a carbon tax because they don't believe that it will actually help clean up the problem or (2) because they don't believe that the government can be trusted to use it for that purpose? Or do people (3) believe climate change is a hoax?
1. Yes. Take Chlorofluorocarbons as an example. The use of which was destroying the Ozone layer. The world did not get together and apply a CFC tax. They banned CFC's and the Ozone is healing nicely. This tax is nothing but a cash grab. You'll notice industries like manufacturing the automobiles that burn fossil fuels are exempt from the carbon tax. I guess factory's in Ontario don't produce any pollution. Since they have decided to use a cash based system, I don't believe the government takes this issue seriously beyond virtue signalling.

2. Yes. Governments have already shown that the money just goes straight into general revenue.

3. No. However, it is a great deal more complex than the PTB"s want to admit. Is it entirely and only human made? No, not a chance. So, the real question is, how much of it is natural and how much is human made and how large an effect can we have are all legitimate discussions.

Moving on; Will all imported oil and gas face the same taxes? If not, we are back to my point about the government paying lip service to an issue and using that issue to make sure no uppity westerner's ever have money, power or a seat at the table that Quebec owns ever again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA1yCIHMJwY

People on this board always view everything through the very narrow lens of aviation and how will it affect my job... this is the transportation industry. Expect your food bill to double, along with everything you buy. Especially all those Amazon delivers you get. Do you have a home? Do you heat your home in winter? If so, expect that to triple or more. Expect the collapse of small and medium business... and as for the finance minister's idea of 70-80% income tax rates, it's been tried already in France. Everyone with money just left the country. The country had to back down on that tax policy. The current Liberal agenda is nothing short of turning Canada into a communist country. I hope that the people of Ontario (and let's face it, that's where the Liberal party is the strongest) do not give this guy another term because the rest of the country can no longer afford to pay for those bills.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by mbav8r »

It seems like Canada’s Liberals are not the only government trying to strangle aviation
https://simpleflying.com/france-eco-tax/
France Weighing An Increase To Aviation Eco-Tax
The current (and relatively new) €1.50 fee for a flight of less than 2,000km in economy, would be bumped up to €30.
The fee would go up to €180 in business class, where it currently sits at €9.
For a long-haul (more than 2,000km) economy class flight, the fee goes up to €60, where it is now €3.
A long-haul business class flight would jump from €18 up to an astounding €400.
The wealthiest in society would not be able to avoid taxes by flying their own jets. The proposed tax for a long-haul private flight is €2,400.
In short, taxes would increase by at least 1900% – something that would undoubtedly alarm executives at Air France – as well as any airline operating service to the country.
The Air Transport Action Group notes that aviation represents around 2% of global human-caused CO2 emissions. For France, just 1.4% of national CO2 emissions come from domestic air transportation
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by goldeneagle »

YYCAME wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:24 am I personally am okay with the idea that if I make a mess that I should help clean it up, so a carbon tax seems like a soft approach
When the first round of pandemic help was announced, a huge chunk of cash was directed to cleaning up abandoned wells in Alberta. That money needs to come from somewhere, and if the oil companies are going to rape the land then disappear and leave the mess, a tax on the product is an appropriate start towards paying for the cleanup.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by pelmet »

goldeneagle wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:23 am
YYCAME wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:24 am I personally am okay with the idea that if I make a mess that I should help clean it up, so a carbon tax seems like a soft approach
When the first round of pandemic help was announced, a huge chunk of cash was directed to cleaning up abandoned wells in Alberta. That money needs to come from somewhere, and if the oil companies are going to rape the land then disappear and leave the mess, a tax on the product is an appropriate start towards paying for the cleanup.
Totally unnecessary to impose a carbon tax due to well cleanup issues. Change the rules so companies are required to clean wells. And.....because of bankruptcy issues leaving wells behind, do like mines are required where a certain amount of money is set aside for cleanup in advance and inaccessible except for cleanup.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by goingnowherefast »

Airliners are generally in the 2-3 liters/100km/passenger range. So tax the shit out of these passengers so they take their SUV instead and burn 10L/100km. Now the 150 seat airliner burning 400L/100km is now going to be replaced by 150 SUVs burning 1500L/100km. Granted some will carpool, families and such, so lets call it 1000L/100km, or more than double the CO2 compared to the airliner.

If they're going to implement a carbon tax, do it evenly across all industries. Pretty sure mother earth doesn't care if the CO2 comes out of an airplane, an SUV or a coal power plant. The environmental impact is the same, so the cost should also be the same.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by Inverted2 »

It’s funny because those 54% will scream bloody murder when they realize they can’t afford their trip to Pukacana in -20 January because half the airlines have closed shop......
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by AuxBatOn »

goingnowherefast wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:56 pm Airliners are generally in the 2-3 liters/100km/passenger range. So tax the shit out of these passengers so they take their SUV instead and burn 10L/100km. Now the 150 seat airliner burning 400L/100km is now going to be replaced by 150 SUVs burning 1500L/100km. Granted some will carpool, families and such, so lets call it 1000L/100km, or more than double the CO2 compared to the airliner.

If they're going to implement a carbon tax, do it evenly across all industries. Pretty sure mother earth doesn't care if the CO2 comes out of an airplane, an SUV or a coal power plant. The environmental impact is the same, so the cost should also be the same.
May be true for short trips. Not likely to be true for anything outside of a day of travel.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by photofly »

goingnowherefast wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:56 pm Airliners are generally in the 2-3 liters/100km/passenger range. So tax the shit out of these passengers so they take their SUV instead and burn 10L/100km.
Hoping for instructions on how to drive my SUV from Toronto to Frankfurt. Go ahead.
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Re: Liberals may target the Transportation sector with very hefty Carbon taxes.

Post by Dockjock »

Aviation just ain't the issue. That teeny tiny sliver at the 6 o'clock position that says "1%" is the contribution of aviation to CO2 emissions within Canada. Talk about a dumb policy idea. In terms of cost/benefit, right off it seems like a tax would make little actual effect on the climate. But worse, say it did discourage flying. The economic impact would be worse than the amount of tax collected, because of how foundational aviation is to economic activity in general. So the tax collects money, the economy shrinks by a greater amount, and climate is basically unchanged, and we're all poorer for it. But politically, people love it. Idiotic. Staring at that chart for more than two seconds and the answer is obvious- nuclear power.
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