IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

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fruz
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by fruz »

I believe the best approach to help our industry survive is to show the government how airlines can use protocols to help mitigate infection. Whether the government agrees or not who knows. But I do know, airlines appealing to the public for support is futile. The government needs to find balance. Your only approach is to help them find it.

Re-opening schools wasn't favourably looked upon by the public, but the government still needed to find a solution to help restart the economy. Aviation is an important sector of our economy.

Trust me, I understand your point. I don’t disagree with you that the public needs to be on board with it. My thought is though that you won’t win over the public first unless the government agrees to some degree. At least not in Canada.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by TheStig »

Agreed, and I'd think most Canadians would agree that our Provincial Governments under all banners have worked diligently up to this point to coordinate with the multiple Heath and School districts to reopen schools across the country. The plans haven't and won't be perfect and they will no doubt be revised. However, our Federal Government is paralyzed, completely consumed with hiding from the WE scandal and planning the next budget. Whether we should or shouldn't relax travel restrictions is irrelevant as it's not even on the agenda.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

Air Canada's latest offering of free health coverage if you get Covid while traveling outside of Canada.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... rance.html
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

I had a layover in London a few days ago. Had a free day. The weather was lovely. My colleague and I took the train to Portsmouth, to visit the Naval Museum there, which is right on the Naval base. The two new Royal Navy Aircraft carriers were both docked there, one in front of the other. We visited a couple 19th century warships, had lunch, had beers, had coffee, in three different places, had a long walk around town before taking the train back to our hotel. There were people everywhere, the pubs, restaurants and terraces the mall, all were full of people. We had a lovely day.

But of course the British are a bunch of reckless people who do not protect their citizens like Canada does.......

https://photos.app.goo.gl/R26x97mMV5Ph4SNH7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z5mjjKUFk3nKrZ277

https://photos.app.goo.gl/HP9S3zy6tsSyC6iN6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yBwyJC8EVMeKgZLh6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UkWXtQZbRAVT8A4c9
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GRK2
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by GRK2 »

Awesome photographs Gilles, er um...where are all the people? I too can wander around the waterfront where I live, have lunch with my family, drink a few beers, or coffee, go shopping or sit in the sun socially distanced with others who can do the same. I can drive to a different city and meet friends in my bubble, go fishing or travel on a ferry and if I choose to, I can fly to another city, and do all the stuff you just did. What, exactly is your point?
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by goldeneagle »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:45 am
But of course the British are a bunch of reckless people who do not protect their citizens like Canada does.......
British restrictions

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus ... -corridors

I notice Canada is not on the list, so, arriving in England from Canada would require a 14 day isolation. But then you must have known that, customs folks would have told you on entry....
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

goldeneagle wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:33 pm British restrictions

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus ... -corridors

I notice Canada is not on the list, so, arriving in England from Canada would require a 14 day isolation. But then you must have known that, customs folks would have told you on entry....
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -and-crew
Aircraft pilots and crew
Applies to:

Pilots and crew, as defined in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to the Air Navigation Order 2016(h), where such crew have travelled to the UK in the course of their work.

You will need to complete the passenger locator form before you travel to the UK if you travel in any part of the aircraft that is accessible to any passenger for any part of the journey (for example the aircraft cabin).

You do not need to complete the passenger locator form if you travel in a part of the aircraft that is not accessible to passengers, for example a fully enclosed cockpit.

You will not need to self-isolate.

You should show a crew badge or ID.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

GRK2 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:31 pm Awesome photographs Gilles, er um...where are all the people? I too can wander around the waterfront where I live, have lunch with my family, drink a few beers, or coffee, go shopping or sit in the sun socially distanced with others who can do the same. I can drive to a different city and meet friends in my bubble, go fishing or travel on a ferry and if I choose to, I can fly to another city, and do all the stuff you just did. What, exactly is your point?
It's safe to travel to certain places. The UK, France, Portugal Spain are just like us. Same masks. Same hand sanitizer. Same thermometer scan at the entrance. Same measures. Same social distancing. Same, same, same, same....
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by GRK2 »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:13 pm
GRK2 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:31 pm Awesome photographs Gilles, er um...where are all the people? I too can wander around the waterfront where I live, have lunch with my family, drink a few beers, or coffee, go shopping or sit in the sun socially distanced with others who can do the same. I can drive to a different city and meet friends in my bubble, go fishing or travel on a ferry and if I choose to, I can fly to another city, and do all the stuff you just did. What, exactly is your point?
It's safe to travel to certain places. The UK, France, Portugal Spain are just like us. Same masks. Same hand sanitizer. Same thermometer scan at the entrance. Same measures. Same social distancing. Same, same, same, same....
IF you're crew. Yes, but not as a passenger. Two weeks in isolation. Are you suggesting that Canada opens the border to anyone who wants to visit? Because until the testing and results are standardized and can be done quickly exactly the same way in every country, we won't be seeing many tourists being allowed entry. In addition some of the countries that used to be safe are gearing up for a second wave. It's shitty but we have to think it might be a tough winter ahead.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

GRK2 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:23 pm Are you suggesting that Canada opens the border to anyone who wants to visit?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

It's safe to travel to certain places
GRK2 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:23 pmBecause until the testing and results are standardized and can be done quickly exactly the same way in every country, we won't be seeing many tourists being allowed entry.
You are aware that Canadian tourists I have been flying to Europe since late July are not tested before or after their arrival in Europe right ? They are just let in after the standard questions.

You are aware that the people who I fly to Canada from Europe, be it returning Canadian Tourists, Students coming to University, Family members of Canadians and Canadian Residents, are not being tested either. You know that right ?
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AuxBatOn
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:29 pm
GRK2 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:23 pm Are you suggesting that Canada opens the border to anyone who wants to visit?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

It's safe to travel to certain places
GRK2 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:23 pmBecause until the testing and results are standardized and can be done quickly exactly the same way in every country, we won't be seeing many tourists being allowed entry.
You are aware that Canadian tourists I have been flying to Europe since late July are not tested before or after their arrival in Europe right ? They are just let in after the standard questions.

You are aware that the people who I fly to Canada from Europe, be it returning Canadian Tourists, Students coming to University, Family members of Canadians and Canadian Residents, are not being tested either. You know that right ?
They don’t get tested but they have to quarantine. Geez Gilles, you are really grasping at straws...
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:57 pm They don’t get tested but they have to quarantine. Geez Gilles, you are really grasping at straws...

They have to......right! You should come out of your bunker more often.....
Do you personally know anyone who has arrived from overseas lately ? Living in an immigrant neighbourhood I know many. I ran into people at the supermarket that I knew had just arrrived....

I know one guy whose ex-in-laws had just arrived from overseas. A couple days later, while he was out, his babysitter called to say the grandparents had just come over and picked up his kids.....

He called the cops. They did......nothing. The law has no ressources to enforce it. People get SMS and the occasional phone call asking if they quarantine.

The other day while in Europe, my colleague received a call from the Government asking why he has was not in quarantine. He told them he was a crewmember and in France so was not subject to quarantine anyway......

We were told to use an application called ArriveCan to report our arrival every time we arrive. I arrived a few times in Quebec and used it at Customs. Then I arrived in Toronto from Overseas and when we presented it to the Canada Customs officer, he waved it away and said it was a "Quebec thing" (I assume he meant for Crewmembers)
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:15 pm
AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:57 pm They don’t get tested but they have to quarantine. Geez Gilles, you are really grasping at straws...

They have to......right! You should come out of your bunker more often.....
Do you personally know anyone who has arrived from overseas lately ? Living in an immigrant neighbourhood I know many. I ran into people at the supermarket that I knew had just arrrived....

I know one guy whose ex-in-laws had just arrived from overseas. A couple days later, while he was out, his babysitter called to say the grandparents had just come over and picked up his kids.....

He called the cops. They did......nothing. The law has no ressources to enforce it. People get SMS and the occasional phone call asking if they quarantine.

The other day while in Europe, my colleague received a call from the Government asking why he has was not in quarantine. He told them he was a crewmember and in France so was not subject to quarantine anyway......

We were told to use an application called ArriveCan to report our arrival every time we arrive. I arrived a few times in Quebec and used it at Customs. Then I arrived in Toronto from Overseas and when we presented it to the Canada Customs officer, he waved it away and said it was a "Quebec thing" (I assume he meant for Crewmembers)
Surely if people don’t feel compelled to quarantine, the demand for international air travel would remain high right? Oh wait. It is not. Either most people feel compelled or there is something deeper - they don’t want to travel for other reasons, like reducing chances of infection. Either way, nothing that will help your argument.

FWIW, your quoted statement alone goes against your argument that the quarantine slowed aviation down.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by FL320 »

AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:37 pm
Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:15 pm
AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:57 pm They don’t get tested but they have to quarantine. Geez Gilles, you are really grasping at straws...

They have to......right! You should come out of your bunker more often.....
Do you personally know anyone who has arrived from overseas lately ? Living in an immigrant neighbourhood I know many. I ran into people at the supermarket that I knew had just arrrived....

I know one guy whose ex-in-laws had just arrived from overseas. A couple days later, while he was out, his babysitter called to say the grandparents had just come over and picked up his kids.....

He called the cops. They did......nothing. The law has no ressources to enforce it. People get SMS and the occasional phone call asking if they quarantine.

The other day while in Europe, my colleague received a call from the Government asking why he has was not in quarantine. He told them he was a crewmember and in France so was not subject to quarantine anyway......

We were told to use an application called ArriveCan to report our arrival every time we arrive. I arrived a few times in Quebec and used it at Customs. Then I arrived in Toronto from Overseas and when we presented it to the Canada Customs officer, he waved it away and said it was a "Quebec thing" (I assume he meant for Crewmembers)
Surely if people don’t feel compelled to quarantine, the demand for international air travel would remain high right? Oh wait. It is not. Either most people feel compelled or there is something deeper - they don’t want to travel for other reasons, like reducing chances of infection. Either way, nothing that will help your argument.

FWIW, your quoted statement alone goes against your argument that the quarantine slowed aviation down.

Pardon me but you react like a sheep who stays in his paddock reading the news all day long; you’re not the only one unfortunately..but there is life outside...go for it.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by GRK2 »

Gilles,

Great that you are flying, still tons of us are not, please try to tone down the layover stories. Others may not be as happy as you. :lol:

THIS:"The problems with airport onsite COVID tests are multifold. Current tests take hours to process, which poses the problem of having people wait somewhere until the results come through. Hong Kong Airport has been doing this for all arriving passengers for some months, but that means passengers must sit in the adjacent convention center for hours after their flight. Many airports do not have a viable “waiting room,” and many passengers would not accept waiting that long, especially for a short domestic flight, which is the majority of travel that U.S. passengers are taking.

The International Air Transport Association (IATA) is calling for a system that would allow a passenger to get a test done 72 hr. ahead of their flight. But the testing would need to be widely available, reliable, approved by all regulatory authorities involved and as non-intrusive as possible. These criteria are not yet available.

Then there’s the question of verifying that the test result belongs to the passenger who presents it at the airport/airline. And there is no agreement on who should pay.

IATA is hopeful that a testing system that would fit the criteria will become available soon, maybe this fall, and it will likely be a next step ahead of any vaccine."

(not my words, IATA quote)

Can you confirm that every passenger you bring back has an Isolation Plan? The fact that you say they do but won't is enough to stop the opening.
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by mijbil »

Here is a clip making the rounds. It's about 40 minutes. The big takeaway for me is that the real measure should not be "cases" but rather the death rate. Imagine if the media breathlessly reported all the "cases" of regular flu or chickenpox or bad breath?
For the record, I think the quarantine needs to end. It's overblown and is as much of a 'pandemic' as the regular flu is a 'pandemic'. Watch the clip and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIF ... h3DYYjMkMc

And another from Australia
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_619 ... 6oo9sfiMP4
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by '97 Tercel »

AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:04 pm
'97 Tercel wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:55 pm
so far, the Canadian population would rather stay home.
..and that's based on your own wide-reaching survey you have conducted recently? Or just a random statement?
Survey on hardship related to US/Canada border closure: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/one-in-fi ... -1.5048795

Canadians want a vaccine before travelling: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5672571

Nice try but that survey was from the beginning of July. A little outdated in 'Covid World'
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

'97 Tercel wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:17 pm
AuxBatOn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:04 pm
'97 Tercel wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:55 pm

..and that's based on your own wide-reaching survey you have conducted recently? Or just a random statement?
Survey on hardship related to US/Canada border closure: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/one-in-fi ... -1.5048795

Canadians want a vaccine before travelling: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5672571

Nice try but that survey was from the beginning of July. A little outdated in 'Covid World'
You really think people have a more positive view today!?
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

It all depends on where you live, your age bracket and so forth......
Small town, older people = bunker in
Large cities, Younger people = time to fly again......
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Re: IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

Post by AuxBatOn »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:54 am It all depends on where you live, your age bracket and so forth......
Small town, older people = bunker in
Large cities, Younger people = time to fly again......
School started (less time for all except working people with no kids or retired I guess), COVID spiking up in Canada and abroad. Yes, I am sure people are a lot more inclined to travel now than 2 months ago...
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