Potential Airline Bailout

[Dh8Classic]

Bottom line: AC has every intention of jacking up their prices once this is over and all their user fees. They will no doubt work to see the end of new competitors. I will no doubt end up helping them when I buy a ticket with my limited choice of airlines. That is my option to buy that ticket and that is the extent of what I am willing to pay.

So Go Away AC. Not interested in subsidizing you, again.

[montado]

I hope for no bailout also. Let half the airlines fail then whoever can stay in their feat will eat up the resources left behind from bankruptcy. They can hire all those pilots back at bottom pay scale and buy planes for next to nothing. As demand comes back the survivors will have a hay day. This is what the general public most likely wants. Get the popcorn ready.

[Curiousflyer]

No problem. They can continue on just as before, but without taxpayer money. After all, it is communism where the taxpayer pays for the airline.

You do realize that every other airline in the world is subsidized by taxpayers?
There are only 3 countries in the world that use "user pay" for airlines: Canada, Ecuador, and Peru. The aviation world is highly regulated and about as far as can be from a 'free market' enterprise.

The reason that countries nationalize, or subsidize their international carriers is because of cabotage rules travelling between countries. So for example, if you want to go to Italy on a direct flight, the only airlines capable of doing that are airlines based in Canada or airlines based in Italy. No countries airlines are allowed on that 'direct flight'. So now if Canada has no airlines, who gets to compete for those flights to Italy? Just Italian airlines, of which there is just 1 airline. What do you think will happen to ticket prices on that airline? $$$$$$
Now you might think, well I could connect through some other country and then that'd where the competition would come from. The problem with that is slowly, every other country can jack up the prices to go to Canada, because of either a monopoly or duopoly in and out of Canada.
So while it might be nice to have free market aviation to lower prices, the truth is our world is the furthest from it and it's not gonna change anytime soon.

[Curiousflyer]

Bottom line: AC has every intention of jacking up their prices once this is over and all their user fees. They will no doubt work to see the end of new competitors. I will no doubt end up helping them when I buy a ticket with my limited choice of airlines. That is my option to buy that ticket and that is the extent of what I am willing to pay.

So Go Away AC. Not interested in subsidizing you, again.

If there isn't an aid package, AC will be the only airline to survive. Even in CCAA it will survive, the slots to other countries are too valuable. AC waited 25 years to get a slot at London Heathrow airport, no chance that goes away. So if you're advocating against an industry aid package for airlines, AC and WJ will be the only ones to survive. What happens to competition then?
Air Transat released their quarterly results, they have $300M in liquidity and owe over $600M in vouchers (refunds). Without an aid package, they go bankrupt and the public is out $600M.

No airline in the world has survived without an aid package from government, not one in the entire world. Every country has provided aid to their airlines, why should Canada be different?
If all we had was foreign airlines, none would be operating to Canada currently, why should the operate in another Country at a loss when no aid is provided?

[pacman007]

There is no aid coming. Especially since WestJet just laid off 415 pilots.

[alkaseltzer]

There is no aid coming. Especially since WestJet just laid off 415 pilots.

We all saw that coming.

Anyone remember when Gerry Schwartz called out Trudeau?

Liberal power couple back Harper on Mideast - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... le4109511/

Raise your hand if you have a shorter term memory than Trudeau aka “the Original Jim Crow”.

[Curiousflyer]

There is no aid coming. Especially since WestJet just laid off 415 pilots.

Still 10 days before that happens. Hopefully it won’t

[Dh8Classic]

No problem. They can continue on just as before, but without taxpayer money. After all, it is communism where the taxpayer pays for the airline.

You do realize that every other airline in the world is subsidized by taxpayers?

AC will do just fine without a bailout. And WJ has big money backing it. Each of them is going to be quite full in about 4 or 5 months with high prices to match. The bailout is our future ticket prices.

I'm sorry that as a newhire, you are not working now(which definitely affects your opinion on this), but I don't think the taxpayers need to be subsidizing AC or WJ. Maybe Flair when they are soon hit hard by targeted low prices on only the routes that they fly.

[Curiousflyer]

No problem. They can continue on just as before, but without taxpayer money. After all, it is communism where the taxpayer pays for the airline.

You do realize that every other airline in the world is subsidized by taxpayers?

AC will do just fine without a bailout. And WJ has big money backing it. Each of them is going to be quite full in about 4 or 5 months with high prices to match. The bailout is our future ticket prices.

I'm sorry that as a newhire, you are not working now(which definitely affects your opinion on this), but I don't think the taxpayers need to be subsidizing AC or WJ. Maybe Flair when they are soon hit hard by targeted low prices on only the routes that they fly.

Why don’t you think they should be subsidized? On principle? What makes a Canada’s airlines so special as to NOT be subsidized when airlines are subsidized everywhere in the world?

[newlygrounded]

You do realize that every other airline in the world is subsidized by taxpayers?

AC will do just fine without a bailout. And WJ has big money backing it. Each of them is going to be quite full in about 4 or 5 months with high prices to match. The bailout is our future ticket prices.

I'm sorry that as a newhire, you are not working now(which definitely affects your opinion on this), but I don't think the taxpayers need to be subsidizing AC or WJ. Maybe Flair when they are soon hit hard by targeted low prices on only the routes that they fly.

Why don’t you think they should be subsidized? On principle? What makes a Canada’s airlines so special as to NOT be subsidized when airlines are subsidized everywhere in the world?

Because we don't subsidize a lot of things in normal times that other countries do. Everything is expected to make a profit (transit, airports, dairy) Instead of industry bailouts we went with CEWS

[Curiousflyer]

Because we don't subsidize a lot of things in normal times that other countries do. Everything is expected to make a profit (transit, airports, dairy) Instead of industry bailouts we went with CEWS

It’s ironic that you list transit (all transit is subsidized in this country except aviation), airports (operate non profit in Canada), dairy (actually is communist (go and buy a cow and try to sell milk)).

The United States, Germany, France, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, UK, and Australia all have a wage subsidy program. All have also provided industry specific support for aviation in addition to a wage subsidy.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... comparison

[newlygrounded]

Because we don't subsidize a lot of things in normal times that other countries do. Everything is expected to make a profit (transit, airports, dairy) Instead of industry bailouts we went with CEWS

It’s ironic that you list transit (all transit is subsidized in this country except aviation), airports (operate non profit in Canada), dairy (actually is communist (go and buy a cow and try to sell milk)).

The United States, Germany, France, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, UK, and Australia all have a wage subsidy program. All have also provided industry specific support for aviation in addition to a wage subsidy.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... comparison

I never said transit isn't subsidized, just that WE expect stuff to stand on it's own despite the rest of the world not working that way. This "new" behavior isn't new.

[Mach1]

I never said transit isn't subsidized, just that WE expect stuff to stand on it's own despite the rest of the world not working that way. This "new" behavior isn't new.

I would be happy if the government stopped acting like a tick trying to suck aviation dry with fees and taxes.

As an example, if airport improvement fees actually improved the airport by fixing runways, taxiways and approach equipment, rather than buying more airports and building shopping malls.

[ayseven]

i have to agree there, Mr Mach. We, the consumers get gouged twice: once by the "non profit" airport agency, and again by the feds. There has to be a change with how the airports are managed, because now, the airport managers make all the money and have so much, they don't know what to do with it all. That should go back to services like ATC, runway maintenance etc, and not fancy totem poles or statues in the waiting room.

I have no problem paying for a ticket where the money goes to the airline, but the airline gets dinged for landing fees etc already, and we pay AGAIN on the add on fees. This system doesn't help the airlines, except to make their prices look lower than they really are. I KNOW the price is very low compared to years ago, but the money should go to the company providing the service, not the airport managers directly.

Transparency is showing where the money goes, and it is never clear with "non profits", because the managers themselves are allowed to skim as much as they want under the law, in ginaormous salaries and perks, as long as the place doesn't show a profit. I mean, that is what Trump does: skims benefits, without showing any income.