Air Canada Hires Influencers Promoting Travel Amid Non-Essential travel Ban

[Rockie]

You are uniquely dense. Would you give up 2.5% of your lifetime’s eligible travel time to keep your grandmother from developing cancer and dying?

I’m guessing no. You don’t seem that selfless.

[HavaJava]

You are uniquely dense. Would you give up 2.5% of your lifetime’s eligible travel time to keep your grandmother from developing cancer and dying?

I’m guessing no. You don’t seem that selfless.

So, explain to me how me giving up travelling will save my grandmother (or anyone else) from dying from Covid. I will accept any logical response. I will not accept any bullshit propaganda and fear mongering.

[Rockie]

You are uniquely dense. Would you give up 2.5% of your lifetime’s eligible travel time to keep your grandmother from developing cancer and dying?

I’m guessing no. You don’t seem that selfless.

So, explain to me how me giving up travelling will save my grandmother (or anyone else) from dying from Covid. I will accept any logical response. I will not accept any bullshit propaganda and fear mongering.

Fish4life compared cancer (noninfectious) to Covid (infectious), and then asked this:

Once again if you are 40 and you are going to live until 80 (slightly above average) 1 year is 2.5% of your life left so why waste it isolating in a house when you could enjoy it.

Isolating in your house and not travelling reduces your chances of contracting Covid and transmitting it to someone else. After 10 months of this surely you've obsorbed that message if only a little bit. Right? So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus. Given fish4life's unwillingness to give up his precious year of travelling my question is reasonable. He obviously doesn't recognize Covid, but he does Cancer. I'm just trying to speak a language he understands.

BTW, you just think science is bullshit and fearmongering because you don't like it. You probably said the same thing to your teachers when they said you were failing.

[montado]

"So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus."

Rockie I'm going to need a source for this. From what I see, just about everyone has made significant changes their lifestyles yet it doesn't appear to have had much impact on cases and deaths. Its hard to know, because the experts don't really tell us what it would look like had we taken no action.

Furthermore, some of these changes have had huge impacts aside from the impact of the virus itself. Some have had their careers destroyed, lost the health benefits they would have had covered through work... They may be unable to now afford prescription glasses or a root canal. People have died for one reason, and that is the governments handling of the pandemic. It has zero to do with individuals actions. You can't take a pandemic and dump the responsibility on the individual.

You have a very narrow mind Rockie. Most people are following the experts, even if they don't like it. To say people have not been willing to change lifestyle is absolutely ridiculous, and just sounds like you excusing politicians for their @#$! up's.

[HavaJava]

Ahhh....finally got around to blocking Rockie...

Feels good to actively ignore him as he fades into senile irrelevance and obscurity!

[Eric Janson]

Do you really rank air travel with handwashing a risky activity?

As I've stated on several threads - I rate travelling commercially as the most hazardous thing I do.

I cannot control my exposure to others at an airport. Social distancing is ignored at boarding and de-planing.

Most flights I've been on are full - no seats blocked.

Plenty of cases of COVID positive people travelling.

[montado]

Do you really rank air travel with handwashing a risky activity?

As I've stated on several threads - I rate travelling commercially as the most hazardous thing I do.

I cannot control my exposure to others at an airport. Social distancing is ignored at boarding and de-planing.

Most flights I've been on are full - no seats blocked.

Plenty of cases of COVID positive people travelling.

Maybe it is the most hazardous thing you do. Just like driving to work is probably the most hazardous thing I have done on a regular basis. But I wear a seatbelt and mitigate the risk right?

I'm surprised about the bias as to where people are most getting covid. I can show people the stats about HCWs account for 20 percent of cases and people shrug their shoulders and still believe being out in public is a huge risk.

From a practical perspective if you want to look at everything as high risk, more power to you. You are certainly helping if you reduce your exposure in any way. But my point is mostly to the leaders who make policy. What not helping is garbage policy that doesn't work. Had they managed the issue of HCW spread, and the way covid spread into non covid units in hospitals, this would have significantly reduced cases.

So travel may be the most risky thing you do right now,but I can tell you if your odds are 1 in 200 you get covid travelling by plane you probablyhhave a 1 in 25 chance of getting covid of you have to enter our healthcare system for any non covid reason.

all those LTC cases are from PSWs caring for the elderly. They move around, work at different homes. The HCW outbreaks are astronomical. Why do we keep hearing about everything except the number one spreaders?

[Rockie]

"So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus."

Rockie I'm going to need a source for this. From what I see, just about everyone has made significant changes their lifestyles yet it doesn't appear to have had much impact on cases and deaths. Its hard to know, because the experts don't really tell us what it would look like had we taken no action.

Furthermore, some of these changes have had huge impacts aside from the impact of the virus itself. Some have had their careers destroyed, lost the health benefits they would have had covered through work... They may be unable to now afford prescription glasses or a root canal. People have died for one reason, and that is the governments handling of the pandemic. It has zero to do with individuals actions. You can't take a pandemic and dump the responsibility on the individual.

You have a very narrow mind Rockie. Most people are following the experts, even if they don't like it. To say people have not been willing to change lifestyle is absolutely ridiculous, and just sounds like you excusing politicians for their @#$! up's.

I’m not surprised you think everyone is following protocols montano, you think everyone is wearing masks.

[Rockie]

Ahhh....finally got around to blocking Rockie...

Feels good to actively ignore him as he fades into senile irrelevance and obscurity!

Better impulse control would allow you to just not read my posts, then you wouldn’t need artificial help with that.

[fliter]

You are uniquely dense. Would you give up 2.5% of your lifetime’s eligible travel time to keep your grandmother from developing cancer and dying?

I’m guessing no. You don’t seem that selfless.

The measures currently in place are far more likely to give grandma cancer. Simply because so many routine check-ups and screenings have either been postponed for months by the doctors or by patients themselves because the fear-mongering has them terrified of entering any health care facility.

Grandma is also more likely to have rapid and permanent progress in her dementia due to social isolation.

Grandma is more likely to die from not receiving a timely transplant. (I have a friend in this situation; she is in dire need of a transplant, but the transplant program has been effectively shut down, so she is basically slowly dying with no hope in sight.)

And grandma's granddaughter is more likely to die by suicide because the lockdown ruined her career and destroyed her financially. (Another friend, tragically, ended up taking her own life after precisely this happened.)

If grandma is dying from any other disease, she'll be forced to die alone as family isn't allowed to see her in the hospital. And grief-striken grandpa won't be able to say his last good-byes at her funeral.

Economic depression leads to increased mortality, that's a fact. Compounded with a lockdown that's highly detrimental to mental health, the situation is even more grim. Have you considered this? Have you actually weighed all the factors to make sure that by saving one person from covid you are not killing three others through "anti-covid measures"? Or is it ok if people die; go broke, homeless, destitute; develop an addiction; develop severe depression... as long as no one dies from covid?

[RRJetPilot]

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-q ... 4b-eng.htm

I like data and facts. Based on the two charts from statistics Canada I can see the pandemic and excess deaths ended in June. But interestingly enough we do still have a portion of the population with excess death, Males 0-44 yrs old.

----------
From mid-May to mid-October, an estimated 7,172 deaths were reported among Canadians aged 0 to 44, an excess of 1,385 deaths. Males accounted for 81% of these excess deaths.

From March until the end of October, there were fewer than 50 deaths attributed to COVID-19 among Canadians under the age of 45. However, beyond COVID-19 itself, increases in mortality could also be due to indirect consequences related to measures put in place to address the pandemic, such as missed or delayed medical interventions and other possible changes in behaviour such as increased substance use.
---------------

[BTD]

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-q ... 4b-eng.htm

I like data and facts. Based on the two charts from statistics Canada I can see the pandemic and excess deaths ended in June. But interestingly enough we do still have a portion of the population with excess death, Males 0-44 yrs old.

----------
From mid-May to mid-October, an estimated 7,172 deaths were reported among Canadians aged 0 to 44, an excess of 1,385 deaths. Males accounted for 81% of these excess deaths.

From March until the end of October, there were fewer than 50 deaths attributed to COVID-19 among Canadians under the age of 45. However, beyond COVID-19 itself, increases in mortality could also be due to indirect consequences related to measures put in place to address the pandemic, such as missed or delayed medical interventions and other possible changes in behaviour such as increased substance use.
---------------

Add this link to that.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 1310078401

It shows excess mortality, all causes, on a weekly basis. Because it compares the average over the last five years, reference that to ourworldindata excess mortality for Canada. That website also separates individual years over the last 5.

[montado]

Healthcare workers and covid stats in Ontario as of June.

HCWS vs all other cases

Screenshot_20210108-214709.png (373.86 KiB) Viewed 1357 times

HCW total cases

Screenshot_20210108-214806~2.png (302.23 KiB) Viewed 1357 times

All other cases

Screenshot_20210108-214815~2.png (274.08 KiB) Viewed 1357 times

In Ontario HCWs were 17 percent of confirmed cases. So how many of the other non HCW cases were due to interaction with HCWs? What has the province done to mitigate this risk? Do these people go home to family? You don't have to dig to far...

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-ne ... e-as-a-psw

Apparently LTC PSWs are paid so shit some are staying in shelters. Can only imagine how many HCWs go home and infect their friends and family. Without proper support and protocol HCWs would account for significant contribution to the reproduction rate of covid. If every infected HCW passed covid to two people, either family friend or patient, this would create a link to 50 percent of covid cases in Ontario.

Look at the attitude of some of the worst hit places with covid.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no ... e-n1247487
Work while infected with covid? Yikes.

['97 Tercel]

Whatever...just everyone stay home and order goods and services only from companies listed on a major index.

Remember, together we can stop anyone from ever dying again.

#HelpEndSenescenceForever

[fish4life]

You are uniquely dense. Would you give up 2.5% of your lifetime’s eligible travel time to keep your grandmother from developing cancer and dying?

I’m guessing no. You don’t seem that selfless.

Oh the calling someone dense argument always a good start...

I brought up cancer because it is a leading cause of death but it certainly doesn’t lead our headline news every night, in fact my chances of dying from it are higher so why not enjoy life because cancer is more likely to be my cause of death than covid?

As for travelling what part increases my risk? I order take out while travelling and at home or go grocery shopping in a different city or at home? Those both seem like equal risk
Is the risky part about travelling the airplane ride with a 1 in 27 million chance of catching covid? Probably not
Is the extra risk in the walk in a national park instead of the over crowded one by my house ? No
Please explain to me what part of responsible travelling is the risky part?

I don’t just follow science but also statistics and as a result I am well aware of my statistical odds of dying vs how many years I have left and travelling is the least of my worries. If someone of high risk wants to keep themselves completely safe they can literally never leave their house in today’s delivery based world yet they still go grocery shopping etc so don’t blame travel and other people for killing them when they are taking the risk on themselves.
As for personal care homes why the F isn’t daily testing of every resident and staff member happening along with contract tracing technology like every major sports league is using? Oh wait the government can’t organize anything so they’d rather blow money than use science and testing to stop the spread.

[Rockie]

The measures currently in place are far more likely to give grandma cancer. Simply because so many routine check-ups and screenings have either been postponed for months by the doctors or by patients themselves because the fear-mongering has them terrified of entering any health care facility.

I haven't specifically checked, but I'm certain skipping routine check-ups does not cause cancer.

I'm also confused as to your point. All of the things you validly point out are being delayed, are delayed because the hospitals are maxed out keeping Covid patients alive. If we reduce the Covid load on hospitals that will give them the space, time and manpower to deal with the other things that have been prioritized behind keeping Covid patients alive. Reducing unnecessary exposure will help that.

Is that the point you're trying to make?

[mbav8r]

355 positive cases result in 1900 contacts, what multiple would you use to get the real percentage of people who ignore public health orders and perpetuate the situation we’re in?

"So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus."

Rockie I'm going to need a source for this. From what I see, just about everyone has made significant changes their lifestyles yet it doesn't appear to have had much impact on cases and deaths. Its hard to know, because the experts don't really tell us what it would look like had we taken no action.

Furthermore, some of these changes have had huge impacts aside from the impact of the virus itself. Some have had their careers destroyed, lost the health benefits they would have had covered through work... They may be unable to now afford prescription glasses or a root canal. People have died for one reason, and that is the governments handling of the pandemic. It has zero to do with individuals actions. You can't take a pandemic and dump the responsibility on the individual.

You have a very narrow mind Rockie. Most people are following the experts, even if they don't like it. To say people have not been willing to change lifestyle is absolutely ridiculous, and just sounds like you excusing politicians for their @#$! up's.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.5866120
“Manitoba's strict lockdown is extended for another two weeks as contact tracers uncover hundreds of COVID-19 cases linked to holiday gatherings.

More than 355 COVID-19 cases and nearly 1,900 contacts have been linked to gatherings during the winter holiday period, Chief Provincial Public Health Officer Dr. Brent Roussin said Friday, as he announced the extension.”

"Our numbers were going in the right direction, but now we're at risk of reversing that, so we've got to keep focusing on those fundamentals."

[pelmet]

355 positive cases result in 1900 contacts, what multiple would you use to get the real percentage of people who ignore public health orders and perpetuate the situation we’re in?

"So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus."

Rockie I'm going to need a source for this. From what I see, just about everyone has made significant changes their lifestyles yet it doesn't appear to have had much impact on cases and deaths. Its hard to know, because the experts don't really tell us what it would look like had we taken no action.

Furthermore, some of these changes have had huge impacts aside from the impact of the virus itself. Some have had their careers destroyed, lost the health benefits they would have had covered through work... They may be unable to now afford prescription glasses or a root canal. People have died for one reason, and that is the governments handling of the pandemic. It has zero to do with individuals actions. You can't take a pandemic and dump the responsibility on the individual.

You have a very narrow mind Rockie. Most people are following the experts, even if they don't like it. To say people have not been willing to change lifestyle is absolutely ridiculous, and just sounds like you excusing politicians for their @#$! up's.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.5866120
“Manitoba's strict lockdown is extended for another two weeks as contact tracers uncover hundreds of COVID-19 cases linked to holiday gatherings.

More than 355 COVID-19 cases and nearly 1,900 contacts have been linked to gatherings during the winter holiday period, Chief Provincial Public Health Officer Dr. Brent Roussin said Friday, as he announced the extension.”

"Our numbers were going in the right direction, but now we're at risk of reversing that, so we've got to keep focusing on those fundamentals."

Stupid people once again. Where are the vast majority of covid cases happening? At social gatherings where people take off their masks. So our experts recommend keeping businesses closed(and bankrupting so many of them) when many of them could have stayed open with all people dutifully keeping their masks on and very few transmissions(as we see every time we shop).

That's the experts for you. They don't say close the high risk businesses, they say close virtually all of them. Many 'experts' are incompetent. So Manitoba had covid coming down despite all kinds of people still shopping but social gatherings over Christmas leads to a spike, and they keep the businesses closed. And plenty of 'experts' were all for keeping schools open because they would be harmed by not learning when plenty of it can be done on-line.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/23/worl ... -open.html

I bet we will find out from studies in the future that this was a major transmission vector for the virus......asymptomatic kids, transmitting to parents who transmitted to old folks homes where they work.

As for the airlines, the problem is not the air travel, it is the social aspect of the travel between the departure and return flight, at least for tourists. They should forcibly quarantine every one of those returning travelers for two weeks at their expense at a secure facility like Australia and NZ do.

[Dash.Trash]

As for the airlines, the problem is not the air travel, it is the social aspect of the travel between the departure and return flight, at least for tourists. They should forcibly quarantine every one of those returning travelers for two weeks at their expense at a secure facility like Australia and NZ do.

Or you know, test upon arrival. Quarantine for 48 hours and test again, then carry on as has been happening in Alberta for months now successfully. But you keep going on thinking that the 14 day quarantine is saving lives pelmet.

[pelmet]

As for the airlines, the problem is not the air travel, it is the social aspect of the travel between the departure and return flight, at least for tourists. They should forcibly quarantine every one of those returning travelers for two weeks at their expense at a secure facility like Australia and NZ do.

Or you know, test upon arrival. Quarantine for 48 hours and test again, then carry on as has been happening in Alberta for months now successfully. But you keep going on thinking that the 14 day quarantine is saving lives pelmet.

I am not sure of the details of Alberta's success. I have read a lot about their high covid rate. Bottom line is a lot of people are not quarantining(including someone I know). I believe Australia and NZ have a successful method. It may be less than 14 days but their economy is not shut down, instead, a bunch of people get pissed off at being inconvenienced. Seems like a reasonable trade-off.

Unfortunately, we have politicians and experts more interested in locking down economy's instead of doing what they should have done this past summer and truly locked down the old folks homes. Too late now to change that so keep the folks coming in here forcibly quarantined for whatever time period is needed. We don't need anymore UK virus as a perfect example which apparently may take over from the original virus. I wonder how that got into Canada? Any guesses.

A test is meaningless when one might not test positive for several days after exposure or the person has a significant chance of going out because they felt good prior to their second test......or they pass it on while going for their second test.

Now that the experts have made their stupid ideas policy.

How about we keep the safe businesses open (where one can wear a mask, distance, and appropriate measures can be taken) and quarantine the vulnerable while enforcing strong rules against the irresponsible/and unwilling. At least the economy will survive along with lives saved.