Age 67 or 69

[alkaseltzer]

Now IS the time to negotiate this. In the era of affirmative action/discrimination, why hasn't ALPA/ACPA/UNIFOR negotiated this?

WHY hasn't Jerry D from Unifor, sued ICAO, based in Montreal for the archaic Age 65 rule? Age discrimination? Why is he leaving so much dues on the table? He's on TV every day and flying banners over Ontario from what I hear. Send some to the west coast please or the east coast.

Age 67 to make up for the lost wages from this pandemic - at the MINIMUM.

But there shouldn't be any age limit, if you can hold a CAT 1 Medical. Or make a new category of medical licensing.

Where are the unions on this? Get "WOKE" for once.

[digits_]

Why would a union fight to *increase* a retirement age?

[newlygrounded]

If it's proven that a 67/69 year old is at the same level of safety as someone 65 I don't mind an age increase.

BUT imagine what the supply of new pilots will look like when you've effectively stunted hiring for 4 years, and there are nearly 0 entry level jobs because upstream hiring has stopped for several years.

[ant_321]

The issue isn’t a Canadian one. You can fly as a captain until your 112 in Canada is you can hold a medical. It’s other countries that are the issue. I’m not so sure the FAA gives a shit what Jerry has to say.

[alkaseltzer]

Why would a union fight to *increase* a retirement age?

1-2% of your gross income goes towards union dues.

Would you rather collect on the $60k first year FO or the $250k+ senior captain?

Math speaks for itself.

ICAO should be sued or move off Canadian soil.

[puckerpower]

I keep seeing this questionable opinion showing up again and again among the older cohort of pilots in this country. To be very clear I have always considered them to be in the minority and that they do not reflect the group as a hole. Nevertheless the the number pilots holding these types of opinions are enough to warrant a rebuke.

First of all Canada has never had a policy of affirmative action, affirmative action was an American policy. Anyone who has ever worked in Canadian Aviation knows that no pilot is in danger of losing a job because hiring is slowly changing to reflect the people who live in Canada. Statements like “In the era of affirmative action/discrimination” should be taken for what they are, thinly veiled relics of the past.

The idea that pilots close to retirement will need to make up for pandemic losses by extending their careers past current international limitations rings hollow. Canada has no control over what regulators in other countries do, even if ICAO happens to be located in Montreal. Pilots who have been out of work since the beginning of the pandemic have no tolerance for pilots close to retirement who have not lost their jobs complain about their pensions or salary reductions from MOAs. They have much more pressing issues to worry about. With the average salary of an Airline Captain in Canada it should not be overly difficult to retire even with an one or two year reduction in salary because of the pandemic.

[rudder]

Pre-COVID, ICAO was already looking at a number higher than 65. There was information out there both pro and con.

This subject will come up again, just slightly derailed with COVID and figuring out if there will be much of an industry going forward.

What member states do with this issue remains to be seen.

[simply_no_one]

Now IS the time to negotiate this. In the era of affirmative action/discrimination, why hasn't ALPA/ACPA/UNIFOR negotiated this?

WHY hasn't Jerry D from Unifor, sued ICAO, based in Montreal for the archaic Age 65 rule? Age discrimination? Why is he leaving so much dues on the table? He's on TV every day and flying banners over Ontario from what I hear. Send some to the west coast please or the east coast.

Age 67 to make up for the lost wages from this pandemic - at the MINIMUM.

But there shouldn't be any age limit, if you can hold a CAT 1 Medical. Or make a new category of medical licensing.

Where are the unions on this? Get "WOKE" for once.

Bhahahahaha.

@#$! no. If anything the old guys should see this as their opportunity to leave with an ERIP and get out of the way.

[simply_no_one]

If it's proven that a 67/69 year old is at the same level of safety as someone 65 I don't mind an age increase.

Some older pilots are great and you learn a ton... and some are fucking terrible and should have retired years ago.

[simply_no_one]

Why would a union fight to *increase* a retirement age?

1-2% of your gross income goes towards union dues.

Would you rather collect on the $60k first year FO or the $250k+ senior captain?

Math speaks for itself.

ICAO should be sued or move off Canadian soil.

The real problem is first year FOs making a measly $60k. I'd rather make less in my later years, and have more earlier on. Especially being on the CWIPP pension not the cushy best years DB.

[altiplano]

Fück that. I want to go when my day comes and I want my time at the trough on the way out.

If they do that again I'm voting for status pay with a WB/NB blended scale- no grandfathering and socialized bidding...

We all know what we signed on for... everyone who wants them has 5 "bonus" years already...

[simply_no_one]

Fück that. I want to go when my day comes and I want my time at the trough on the way out.

If they do that again I'm voting for status pay with a WB/NB blended scale- no grandfathering and socialized bidding...

We all know what we signed on for... everyone who wants them has 5 "bonus" years already...

Yup.

Alkaseltzer is in a dream world.

@alkaselzer What about all the flat pay FOs who have lost out on years of service, pay progression, quick upgrades, CWIPP compounding (big impact over 30 years)... what's the "minimum" to make up for the pandemic for them? Oh right, you only care about senior positions. They didn't even get CEWS like other airlines in Canada. @#$! the juniors, praise the seniors...

[RRJetPilot]

Now IS the time to negotiate this. In the era of affirmative action/discrimination, why hasn't ALPA/ACPA/UNIFOR negotiated this?

WHY hasn't Jerry D from Unifor, sued ICAO, based in Montreal for the archaic Age 65 rule? Age discrimination? Why is he leaving so much dues on the table? He's on TV every day and flying banners over Ontario from what I hear. Send some to the west coast please or the east coast.

Age 67 to make up for the lost wages from this pandemic - at the MINIMUM.

But there shouldn't be any age limit, if you can hold a CAT 1 Medical. Or make a new category of medical licensing.

Where are the unions on this? Get "WOKE" for once.

You knew what you signed up for and now you want more. Fucking boomers. Ride off into the sunset with some class. Stop trying to @#$! the younger generation you geezer.

[speedah]

I swear half these guys over 60 shouldn't be flying a plane to begin with... I cant imagine flying with someone pushing 70. Is he going to show up to the plane with a walker?

[simply_no_one]

https://www.ajc.com/news/business/more- ... E7QD63EUU/

[RRJetPilot]

I swear half these guys over 60 shouldn't be flying a plane to begin with... I cant imagine flying with someone pushing 70. Is he going to show up to the plane with a walker?

A walker, hearing aid, magnifying glass, seat cushions, etc etc etc. Gotta fly till you die if you have no life and need to support a few X wives and children. Kinda start to feel bad for him. But not really.

[scdriver]

Sorry for the ignorance here folks I’m not in the airline world, but do AC/WJ/others have mandatory retirement age for pilots? I understand that Canada as a country does not but I’m wondering about specific carriers.

[Inverted2]

I think 65 is more than plenty. Plus if you’re doing the long haul flying with lots of disruptive timezone changes while you’re elderly it’ll take a terrible toll on your health.

[simply_no_one]

Sorry for the ignorance here folks I’m not in the airline world, but do AC/WJ/others have mandatory retirement age for pilots? I understand that Canada as a country does not but I’m wondering about specific carriers.

AC technically doesn't. They have some provision for guys/gals turning 65 where they can "retire in duress" or some shit aka not officially give notice or truely retire. Yet somehow they can still collect a pension which doesn't make sense to me . So that way if it goes to 67 they can come back. It's one of the reasons a number of people didn't take the ERIP because that would have meant they would have actually had to give proper notice and officially call it quits.

IIRC WestJet allows you to stay on after 65 (I think up to 70?) and they are built domestic only blocks. Which I think is ridiculous. The real entitlement generation is the boomers. Change my mind.

[simply_no_one]

Also, just to point out, I highly doubt ICAO would be doing anything about this in the near future. In the USA thousands of pilots retired with ERP plans, and there's mass pilot employment elsewhere around the world. 60% of Canadian pilots are out of work, CX cutting staff, EK, LH, Qatar etc. All cutting hundreds/thousands of pilots, expats being sent home from all areas of the world. There is no need to extend the age, because we have more than enough pilots to fill the available positions for the foreseeable future.