Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

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Mach1
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by Mach1 »

alkaseltzer wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:25 pm They are still a risk, (maybe not a mortal risk) but you can still get sick. (No difference than the flu vaccine and then catching a different strain).
I have some bad news for you but it's best someone tells you this:

It's not just your imagination, the Universe is out to kill you.
Poisonous plants and animals.
Predators.
Viruses and bacteria.
Random DNA errors.
Radiation.
Giant rocks and ice moving through space at amazing speeds.
And many, many more.

And they all have one thing in common. These are all things that are beyond our control.

Life isn't safe and never will be. It's a challenge to stay alive every second of every day of your life. There's no way to childproof the Universe, so you have to either decide to live the best life you can or hide in a shelter until something kills you but, no matter the choice the outcome is always death. So, I suggest you find a way to asses your personal level of acceptable risk and live accordingly. However. don't try to force your risk assessment on everyone else because there will be those with a lower risk tolerance than you, and those with a higher risk tolerance and you can not control what others assess as acceptable. Just live your life and let other people live theirs.
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alkaseltzer
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by alkaseltzer »

Mach1 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:19 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:25 pm They are still a risk, (maybe not a mortal risk) but you can still get sick. (No difference than the flu vaccine and then catching a different strain).
I have some bad news for you but it's best someone tells you this:

It's not just your imagination, the Universe is out to kill you.
Poisonous plants and animals.
Predators.
Viruses and bacteria.
Random DNA errors.
Radiation.
Giant rocks and ice moving through space at amazing speeds.
And many, many more.

And they all have one thing in common. These are all things that are beyond our control.

Life isn't safe and never will be. It's a challenge to stay alive every second of every day of your life. There's no way to childproof the Universe, so you have to either decide to live the best life you can or hide in a shelter until something kills you but, no matter the choice the outcome is always death. So, I suggest you find a way to asses your personal level of acceptable risk and live accordingly. However. don't try to force your risk assessment on everyone else because there will be those with a lower risk tolerance than you, and those with a higher risk tolerance and you can not control what others assess as acceptable. Just live your life and let other people live theirs.
I agree with the first part of your argument. Many things in the universe are out to kill us.

This is why we don’t have poison ivy growing as office plants in cockpits. This is why we have cockpit doors that are bullet proof against terrorists. This is why we track our radiation exposure now, when we are flying (unlike some other airlines) and is an evolving science. This is why we have aviation medicals to see if your DNA error had translated into a cardiovascular or neurological defect.

Who we see as a health threat, whether you are Andres Lubitz or simply someone to refuse a vaccine because of your personal reasons, we should have a choice who we want to share that cockpit with. There shouldn’t be a penalty for either party but an accommodation.

This is not the same as Flight attendants deciding how many earrings, noserings, or tattoos they want. This is not about fat shaming or the like.

The question is, from 2021 onwards, is the prospect of severe infectious disease in a cockpit, is this a human rights issue or a labour issue? Do we have to institute rapid testing before every flight? I don’t think so, it would be onerous and costly if a crew member tested positive. But to outright refuse a vaccine? Then the other crew members should have a choice whether they want to fly with that individual for hours on end. Where do we draw the line in refusing unsafe work? We can’t send a child to a public school unvaccinated, why would the rules exempt pilots and flight attendants with hundreds of lives at risk?

If you don’t want to do it, fine. Share the cockpit with someone else and have it professionally sanitized/fumigated after every leg? Fine. Have someone to fumigate the bunks on rotation? All for it.

Logistics and costs in getting it done? Highly doubtful.
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Human Factor
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by Human Factor »

"Severe infectious disease"? I thought we were talking about covid here.... :roll:
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alkaseltzer
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by alkaseltzer »

Human Factor wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:21 pm "Severe infectious disease"? I thought we were talking about covid here.... :roll:
“ Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), also known as the coronavirus, or COVID, is a contagious disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). ”

Check it out on Wikipedia (should be easy to understand for you, it’s like Hooked on Phonics)


:roll:
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TrilliumFlt
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by TrilliumFlt »

Human Factor wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:21 pm "Severe infectious disease"? I thought we were talking about covid here.... :roll:
The severity of Covid19 isn't "universal". Many people have pre-existing conditions that puts them at greater risk of infection and the associated complications. This issue is going to become a significant for all "closed" work spaces, not just the cockpit environment.
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Outlaw58
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by Outlaw58 »

Mach1 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:19 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:25 pm They are still a risk, (maybe not a mortal risk) but you can still get sick. (No difference than the flu vaccine and then catching a different strain).
I have some bad news for you but it's best someone tells you this:

It's not just your imagination, the Universe is out to kill you.
Poisonous plants and animals.
Predators.
Viruses and bacteria.
Random DNA errors.
Radiation.
Giant rocks and ice moving through space at amazing speeds.
And many, many more.

And they all have one thing in common. These are all things that are beyond our control.

Life isn't safe and never will be. It's a challenge to stay alive every second of every day of your life. There's no way to childproof the Universe, so you have to either decide to live the best life you can or hide in a shelter until something kills you but, no matter the choice the outcome is always death. So, I suggest you find a way to asses your personal level of acceptable risk and live accordingly. However. don't try to force your risk assessment on everyone else because there will be those with a lower risk tolerance than you, and those with a higher risk tolerance and you can not control what others assess as acceptable. Just live your life and let other people live theirs.
I watched "The Croods" too with my kids :) Cool flick!

58
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Mach1
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by Mach1 »

I haven't seen The Croods. Now I feel like I need to watch it.

Off topic, The Mitchell's Vs. The Machines for the kids, but more so for yourself.
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EPR
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by EPR »

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alkaseltzer
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by alkaseltzer »

FOD wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:38 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:46 pm
Human Factor wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:21 pm "Severe infectious disease"? I thought we were talking about covid here.... :roll:
“ Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), also known as the coronavirus, or COVID, is a contagious disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). ”

Check it out on Wikipedia (should be easy to understand for you, it’s like Hooked on Phonics)


:roll:
I have an idea. Since you seem to be afraid of everything. Why don’t you hide in your basement and leave the rest of us alone. How are insulting arseholes like this allowed to post such vitriol and hate all the time. Sounds like Rockie is back under a different username. Moderating here is terrible.
So sensitive, apologies. Correcting someone on facts is not vitriol. Avcanada is not the avenue to become the next Qanon bandwagon.

Instead of sparring with you, here’s an article for your morning coffee:

https://financialpost.com/executive/car ... -side-with

This was the original question and intent of this thread. I won’t be posting further on this topic as this article pretty much nails the “jist” of it.
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montado
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by montado »

TrilliumFlt wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:07 am
Human Factor wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:21 pm "Severe infectious disease"? I thought we were talking about covid here.... :roll:
The severity of Covid19 isn't "universal". Many people have pre-existing conditions that puts them at greater risk of infection and the associated complications. This issue is going to become a significant for all "closed" work spaces, not just the cockpit environment.
Are the same pre existing conditions that can lead you to death by covid, similar or the same to those pre existing conditions that could cause death by influenza?

Should the whole world come to a halt to protect the obese because they have more risk factors during illness? I wonder why 50k Canadians die of the flu/pneumonia every year and no one gave a shit that they had pre existing conditions that made them more at risk.
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TheStig
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by TheStig »

montado wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:30 am
Should the whole world come to a halt to protect the obese because they have more risk factors during illness? I wonder why 50k Canadians die of the flu/pneumonia every year and no one gave a shit that they had pre existing conditions that made them more at risk.
The flu causes approximately 3500 death per year in Canada.
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rigpiggy
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by rigpiggy »

Actually twice that amount on average https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 1310039201

As i said to my employer once. I'll worry about me, chances are if I'm ok you'll be fine.
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eyebrow737
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by eyebrow737 »

I'm heartened by the amount of people in this thread approaching this whole pandemic with a level head. I finally agree with Altiplano on something.

I cannot stand the 'antivax' insult. Typically given by people.who have also picked and chosen which vaccines they have got out of the scores available.

An example is tuberculosis which is not a vaccine mandated in North America but is in many other countries. I have my TB vaccine but challenge anyone here freely throwing out antivax moniker here to say the same even though TB is termed as a global pandemic and still kills 1.5 million people a year, many here in Canada.

https://resultscanada.ca/overview/health/tuberculosis/
https://www.tballiance.org/why-new-tb-d ... l-pandemic
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TrilliumFlt
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by TrilliumFlt »

montado wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:30 am
TrilliumFlt wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:07 am
Human Factor wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:21 pm "Severe infectious disease"? I thought we were talking about covid here.... :roll:
The severity of Covid19 isn't "universal". Many people have pre-existing conditions that puts them at greater risk of infection and the associated complications. This issue is going to become a significant for all "closed" work spaces, not just the cockpit environment.
Are the same pre existing conditions that can lead you to death by covid, similar or the same to those pre existing conditions that could cause death by influenza?

Should the whole world come to a halt to protect the obese because they have more risk factors during illness? I wonder why 50k Canadians die of the flu/pneumonia every year and no one gave a shit that they had pre existing conditions that made them more at risk.
To answer your question, no.

The pre-existing condition I have puts me at much great risk should I contract Covid. It doesn't cause any elevated risk at all should I contract influenza, I'd be at the same risk as most other people.
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Re: Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

Post by C-GGGQ »

eyebrow737 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:44 pm I'm heartened by the amount of people in this thread approaching this whole pandemic with a level head. I finally agree with Altiplano on something.

I cannot stand the 'antivax' insult. Typically given by people.who have also picked and chosen which vaccines they have got out of the scores available.

An example is tuberculosis which is not a vaccine mandated in North America but is in many other countries. I have my TB vaccine but challenge anyone here freely throwing out antivax moniker here to say the same even though TB is termed as a global pandemic and still kills 1.5 million people a year, many here in Canada.

https://resultscanada.ca/overview/health/tuberculosis/
https://www.tballiance.org/why-new-tb-d ... l-pandemic
Which is dumb. Jobs want annual Mantoux tests for tb but no one ever just suggests getting the vaccine
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