Flight/Cabin Crew and Anti Vaxxers

[alkaseltzer]

As we turn the corner of this pandemic, what are companies doing for those refusing to be vaccinated?

Is it a right to refuse safe work with an anti-vaxxer, whether they are cabin crew or flight crew?

Where do we draw the line? Do we have new bidding systems?

[northernpilot2]

Is it a right to refuse safe work with an anti-vaxxer, whether they are cabin crew or flight crew?

I don't have any issue working with anyone, vax or anti vax. Masks or no mask. I get along with all. Never felt threatened.

[C-GGGQ]

Thats not unsafe work. Someone not vaccinated is not a threat if you yourself are vaccinated. Been flying covid patients for over a year. Close contact. Not a single flight crew has come down with it. I’m not worried

[Cavalier44]

I've received my first COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer in my case), with the second shot to come in a few months' time. Based on what we know about how the vaccine works, it's really irrelevant to me if a colleague is vaccinated or not. The vaccine is really about self-protection - as we know, it doesn't mean that you will be 100% protected from catching COVID-19, nor does it prevent you from transmitting the virus if you do become infected. However, Pfizer does claim a 95% vaccine efficacy after two doses, which has been defined as the vaccine's ability to prevent severe infection in those who have received it. If I have that layer of protection, I won't be particularly concerned if a colleague has been vaccinated or not, because my risk of a severe outcome is very low even if they were to transmit the virus to me.

It seems that the general trend in Canada is that employers will leave the choice of whether or not to be vaccinated up to the individual employee. At my company, it's been explicitly stated that the choice to get vaccinated lies with the employee and that the company will not be forcing anyone to take it against their will, although they are certainly encouraging it. Personally, I believe in equipping people with all the information that's available and then allowing them to make their decision accordingly - if they choose to get the vaccine, that's great, if not, they should be willing to accept the consequences of that decision whatever they may be.

With all that being said, if you're going to be traveling internationally for work, it may become difficult going forward if you're going to skip out on the vaccine. It's going to depend on policies in place in each individual country, some may choose to keep their borders closed to individuals who haven't received the vaccine; whether or not flight crew will receive some kind of exemption to this remains to be seen. If you can't operate to certain destinations because of a requirement to have the vaccine, I can't see an employer being particularly accomodating of that - certainly, we won't see parallel bidding systems for those who have been vaccinated and those who haven't.

[alkaseltzer]

Thats not unsafe work. Someone not vaccinated is not a threat if you yourself are vaccinated. Been flying covid patients for over a year. Close contact. Not a single flight crew has come down with it. I’m not worried

Weren’t you flying patients in a hazmat suit? Or no PPE at all?

“Someone not vaccinated is not a threat if you yourself are vaccinated.”

They are still a risk, (maybe not a mortal risk) but you can still get sick. (No difference than the flu vaccine and then catching a different strain).

[alkaseltzer]

If you can't operate to certain destinations because of a requirement to have the vaccine, I can't see an employer being particularly accomodating of that - certainly, we won't see parallel bidding systems for those who have been vaccinated and those who haven't.

This. To not accommodate a parallel bidding system, especially in our line of work...what would a labour tribunal say? Is this a labour issue? A human rights issue? Both? Who actually has the authority to enforce a pilot/FA to fly with someone non-vaccinated (assuming that the vaccine is readily available and the particular crew member refuses to vaccinate). Should this be seen as equal to flying with a crew member that can’t hold a medical?

Perhaps I suppose if some airlines force pregnant FAs to fly to Zika-rich regions, then the precedent is set.

[telex]

They are still a risk...

This is not clear to me...

Are you saying the unvaxxed are a risk to the vaxxed?

[Human Factor]

The term "anti-vaxxer" isn't really accurate for a person who has had every other inoculation offered to them throughout their life, but is hesitant on accepting a specific shot that's so far approved for emergency use only. Not to mention that Covid is far from a death sentence for most everyone on the planet, so there's hardly a need for folks to panic and run away from the unvaccinated.

Besides, I'm sure every person here has sat next to someone somewhere at some point in their lives that was carrying a flu, or a cold, or hepatitis, or AIDs or who knows what else...

[C-GGGQ]

Thats not unsafe work. Someone not vaccinated is not a threat if you yourself are vaccinated. Been flying covid patients for over a year. Close contact. Not a single flight crew has come down with it. I’m not worried

Weren’t you flying patients in a hazmat suit? Or no PPE at all?

“Someone not vaccinated is not a threat if you yourself are vaccinated.”

They are still a risk, (maybe not a mortal risk) but you can still get sick. (No difference than the flu vaccine and then catching a different strain).

Respirator. Sometimes a gown when they were available. Gloves. Kept getting told the full suits would be coming. They didn’t and aren’t. And yet we had crews who would take them off in the cockpit when no one was looking. The amount of cross contamination was staggering, and yet no one sick. Now the majority of us have had both shots. Some still refusing. I’m not worried about those refusing.

[C-GGGQ]

Not to mention that Covid is far from a death sentence for most everyone on the planet, so there's hardly a need for folks to panic and run away from the unvaccinated.

I mean the US has had 10 times the body count of The Vietnam war…. So not nothing, but then they’re opened up like it never happened. Guess it was an acceptable number to them.

[Human Factor]

I mean the US has had 10 times the body count of The Vietnam war…. So not nothing, but then they’re opened up like it never happened. Guess it was an acceptable number to them.

Assuming that their covid death count is accurate, which it very likely isn't.

[frog]

The term "anti-vaxxer" isn't really accurate for a person who has had every other inoculation offered to them throughout their life, but is hesitant on accepting a specific shot that's so far approved for emergency use only. Not to mention that Covid is far from a death sentence for most everyone on the planet, so there's hardly a need for folks to panic and run away from the unvaccinated.

Besides, I'm sure every person here has sat next to someone somewhere at some point in their lives that was carrying a flu, or a cold, or hepatitis, or AIDs or who knows what else...

AIDS is not transmittable by sitting beside somebody.

[Human Factor]

AIDS is not transmittable by sitting beside somebody.

Depends how well your flight goes.

[Julian.B]

The problem with the internet is that it gave every idiot a voice. Sure, I like to troll here and there, but when it comes to important stuff, I listen to those who know. I trust a pilot can do his job and I trust that a doctor can do her job. I trust a plumber can do her job.. no his job. No such thing as women plumbers. Not in a traditional sense.

Anyway. Sh*tty jokes aside, I trust the consensus of the scientific community and the general consensus of doctors. I got my vaccine and I'm very happy I did. For those of you that want to call me a "sheep", well "Behehehe you!"

[alkaseltzer]

Thats not unsafe work. Someone not vaccinated is not a threat if you yourself are vaccinated. Been flying covid patients for over a year. Close contact. Not a single flight crew has come down with it. I’m not worried

Weren’t you flying patients in a hazmat suit? Or no PPE at all?

“Someone not vaccinated is not a threat if you yourself are vaccinated.”

They are still a risk, (maybe not a mortal risk) but you can still get sick. (No difference than the flu vaccine and then catching a different strain).

Respirator. Sometimes a gown when they were available. Gloves. Kept getting told the full suits would be coming. They didn’t and aren’t. And yet we had crews who would take them off in the cockpit when no one was looking. The amount of cross contamination was staggering, and yet no one sick. Now the majority of us have had both shots. Some still refusing. I’m not worried about those refusing.

This sounds like an Air Bravo or Skycare operation.

[altiplano]

Who cares.

Nobody worries if the guy next to them had a flu shot or not, and we had an H1N1 pandemic only 12 years ago and various outbreaks are still occurring every year. Estimates of 80% of deaths are in people under 60 years of age. There is a vaccine. I don't see anyone worried about it or demanding it though.

I also never saw anyone book off or refuse work with the guy that showed up with the sniffles or coughing up a lung either. But here he is, gonna sit next to you for the next 8 hours and you're going to go for dinner with him on the layover too.

The current "pandemic" is hyped up. The fact is, just like H1N1, just like avian and swine influenzas of pandemics past, just like other corona variants, cov19 is here to stay, our immune systems adapt, and we will move forward and soon forget about it. Sure there will be another outbreak here or there, but nothing serious, because the news cycle will have moved on.

[RippleRock]

Not to mention that Covid is far from a death sentence for most everyone on the planet, so there's hardly a need for folks to panic and run away from the unvaccinated.

I mean the US has had 10 times the body count of The Vietnam war…. So not nothing, but then they’re opened up like it never happened. Guess it was an acceptable number to them.

There are the "all life is precious crowd" but the reality of it is that the lives lost during the Vietnam War were far more valuable, both on a time-line and economic metric. It's not remotely a fair comparison.

The fact is most Covid victims were in their 80's.

If a person dies in their 80's, they had a long life, likely missed out on nothing of consequence and generally were as fulfilled as they could be. Those lost in Vietnam were likely in their 20's, and had their entire lives ahead of them, including raising a family and contributing to the economic engine that made America what it is. Their legacy is non-existant compared to a person in their 80's as they never had a chance to develop it....tragic in itself. After 70+-, one's "contribution to society" diminishes exponentially, as does the quality of life as the body begins to fail. People are rarely remembered for their achievements past 80, and are far more likely to be remembered for their younger years.

[alkaseltzer]

Who cares.

The current "pandemic" is hyped up. The fact is, just like H1N1, just like avian and swine influenzas of pandemics past, just like other corona variants, cov19 is here to stay, our immune systems adapt, and we will move forward and soon forget about it. Sure there will be another outbreak here or there, but nothing serious, because the news cycle will have moved on.

Altiplano, the resident “Avcanada virologist”. Nothing serious? I’m sure NYC digging graves to dump body bags was just “hype”.

Similar to trolls like SK or AW, you might want to get educated before you post stupid public health opinions. But you’re entitled to your opinion.

[altiplano]

Who cares.

The current "pandemic" is hyped up. The fact is, just like H1N1, just like avian and swine influenzas of pandemics past, just like other corona variants, cov19 is here to stay, our immune systems adapt, and we will move forward and soon forget about it. Sure there will be another outbreak here or there, but nothing serious, because the news cycle will have moved on.

Altiplano, the resident “Avcanada virologist”. Nothing serious? I’m sure NYC digging graves to dump body bags was just “hype”.

Similar to trolls like SK or AW, you might want to get educated before you post stupid public health opinions. But you’re entitled to your opinion.

You started a thread for what? People to agree with you or discussion?

You offer nothing but insult... and I'm a troll?

[Arnie Pye]

I am on the fence about this myself. I have been out of aviation for the last 18 months and working a part time job. Some of the people I work with are certifiable, tinfoil hat wearing anti-vaxxers. They go to anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine rallies and not only flaunt the rules but brag of it. I do see working in a close environment with someone like this as dangerous work. They are going out of their way to put themselves at risk and by extension, putting me at risk. I have told my manager that I will not work indoors with certain people because of this.

It is possible that even though I have my first shot, I could bring it home to someone who is less likely to recover. Sure, my parents and my elderly neighbours have had good lives up to this point. I don't want to be indirectly responsible for prematurely ending their good lives. My youngest kid still isn't eligible for a vaccine. I don't want her to get it either.

I think in time, this will become the equivalent of "must be able to hold a valid RAIC and fly to all ports served by XYZ Airline". Other countries won't care about your feels or your conscientious objector status and you just won't be able to enter if you can't prove you have the vaccine.

I am hoping the days of people coming into work sick are over. I know I'll be much more conscientious about this going forward. It's amazing what regular sleep, hand washing and mask wearing have done for my health though.