Will this industry ever recover?

[newlygrounded]

It seems like every week there is either some bad news or some permanent agreement lowering pilot wages another 20% forever.

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere. I can't imagine how it will be in a few months?

[Turboprops]

even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere.

Huh? Do we live in some sort of parallel universe? Pre covid people were getting direct entry turbine jobs with a fresh CPL.
I myself got a survey job 2 days after CPL flight test.

I don’t have a crystal ball to tell you when we’re getting back to 2019 level, but I’m telling you it was extremely easy to find a job back then.

[lownslow]

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere.

It’s your life to live but I recommend whatever you do don’t make important life decisions based on some exaggerated hypothetical situation you made up. Imagining yourself as a victim as a means of showing strength is just going to screw you in the long run. It’s just quitter shit and fine if you don’t pursue aviation, it’s not for everyone, but if this response to the possibility of any trace amount of hardship is a pattern for you I can’t stress enough how much better off you’ll be to not do that.

Or do, I’m not your guidance counselor.

[Hot Wings]

Didn’t this guy have a recent thread similarly whining about everything?

[200Above]

It’s a shitty industry. I wouldn’t encourage a friend or family member to do it.

I used to eat, sleep and breath flying. Fly 1200 hours a year. I sacrificed a lot for this industry. So have my colleagues.

It’s been a good ride, but if I never fly again, I can honestly say I wouldn’t miss it. It’s a job.

My last landing before furlough, while on a 2 mile final in Yhz, it crossed my mind…. I had I better make this landing count.

Will I go back to AC?.....Yeah.... Probably. But I’ll be a hell of a lot less hesitant to drop this bs if push comes to shove.

[montado]

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere.

It’s your life to live but I recommend whatever you do don’t make important life decisions based on some exaggerated hypothetical situation you made up. Imagining yourself as a victim as a means of showing strength is just going to screw you in the long run. It’s just quitter shit and fine if you don’t pursue aviation, it’s not for everyone, but if this response to the possibility of any trace amount of hardship is a pattern for you I can’t stress enough how much better off you’ll be to not do that.

Or do, I’m not your guidance counselor.

It’s like the angry people who come out complaining about minimum wage and how it’s not enough to be a living wage. “I can’t buy a detached house in Toronto making min wage so I can’t live!” When could min wage ever buy someone a house in Toronto?

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere.

It’s your life to live but I recommend whatever you do don’t make important life decisions based on some exaggerated hypothetical situation you made up. Imagining yourself as a victim as a means of showing strength is just going to screw you in the long run. It’s just quitter shit and fine if you don’t pursue aviation, it’s not for everyone, but if this response to the possibility of any trace amount of hardship is a pattern for you I can’t stress enough how much better off you’ll be to not do that.

Or do, I’m not your guidance counselor.

It’s like the angry people who come out complaining about minimum wage and how it’s not enough to be a living wage. “I can’t buy a detached house in Toronto making min wage so I can’t live!” When could min wage ever buy someone a house in Toronto?

Let's think about this for a moment.

When you factor in the time that you are spending working with the doors open and parking brake set, you realize that your $50/hr job is actually a $22.50/hr job and people who dropped out of high school are making more money plowing snow.

I'm in it because I haven't found any other job that has satisfied me anywhere near the way my flying gig does.

[CL-Skadoo!]

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere.

It’s your life to live but I recommend whatever you do don’t make important life decisions based on some exaggerated hypothetical situation you made up. Imagining yourself as a victim as a means of showing strength is just going to screw you in the long run. It’s just quitter shit and fine if you don’t pursue aviation, it’s not for everyone, but if this response to the possibility of any trace amount of hardship is a pattern for you I can’t stress enough how much better off you’ll be to not do that.

Or do, I’m not your guidance counselor.

That's the best bit of advice I have ever read on this website.

[montado]

When you factor in the time that you are spending working with the doors open and parking brake set, you realize that your $50/hr job is actually a $22.50/hr job and people who dropped out of high school are making more money plowing snow.

Now pay your taxes, insurance, car payment etc… and you find out you are working for free! If your rate is 50 an hour and you don’t have contract protection to where 50 turns to 22.50 that’s a bad contract.

Damit! Bring CERB back so we can sit at home and be better off

That’s literally the way of minimum wage right now. For some reason mixing capitalism and socialism creates some problems I don’t blame people. If the government will throw money your way, why bother going to work. Maybe this is the beginning of seeing what UBI will look like.

[Curiousflyer]

It’s a shitty industry. I wouldn’t encourage a friend or family member to do it.

I used to eat, sleep and breath flying. Fly 1200 hours a year. I sacrificed a lot for this industry. So have my colleagues.

It’s been a good ride, but if I never fly again, I can honestly say I wouldn’t miss it. It’s a job.

My last landing before furlough, while on a 2 mile final in Yhz, it crossed my mind…. I had I better make this landing count.

Will I go back to AC?.....Yeah.... Probably. But I’ll be a hell of a lot less hesitant to drop this bs if push comes to shove.

How many furloughed pilots just wont come back to their jobs? I know of quite a few that have started up businesses, or found better paying gigs for less time away. I’d never recommend this job to anyone starting out there are tons of other things you could do, all with a much better work life balance and better pay. I mean take a look at teachers salary, their net income (after tax) is going to be around $2M after 30 years. Even an AC pilot will likely be around $2.5M net income over the course of there career. Anyone starting out today should seriously consider what that extra $500k is actually worth. Summers off, work 10 months a year, no weekends. Hell its a no brainer for me, but the truth is the old guard doesn’t have a fucking clue how much this industry sucks for new people starting out and it’s only going to get worse over the next 10 years and our entire society thinks pilots high on the hog, when in reality they live on kraft dinner and hot dogs.

[pitottubey]

As an aspiring airline pilot I hope most airline pilots don't feel the same sentiments...

[scdriver]

It’s a shitty industry. I wouldn’t encourage a friend or family member to do it.

I used to eat, sleep and breath flying. Fly 1200 hours a year. I sacrificed a lot for this industry. So have my colleagues.

It’s been a good ride, but if I never fly again, I can honestly say I wouldn’t miss it. It’s a job.

My last landing before furlough, while on a 2 mile final in Yhz, it crossed my mind…. I had I better make this landing count.

Will I go back to AC?.....Yeah.... Probably. But I’ll be a hell of a lot less hesitant to drop this bs if push comes to shove.

How many furloughed pilots just wont come back to their jobs? I know of quite a few that have started up businesses, or found better paying gigs for less time away. I’d never recommend this job to anyone starting out there are tons of other things you could do, all with a much better work life balance and better pay. I mean take a look at teachers salary, their net income (after tax) is going to be around $2M after 30 years. Even an AC pilot will likely be around $2.5M net income over the course of there career. Anyone starting out today should seriously consider what that extra $500k is actually worth. Summers off, work 10 months a year, no weekends. Hell its a no brainer for me, but the truth is the old guard doesn’t have a fucking clue how much this industry sucks for new people starting out and it’s only going to get worse over the next 10 years and our entire society thinks pilots high on the hog, when in reality they live on kraft dinner and hot dogs.

That is some dodgy math. $2M over 30 years is ~$67k per year after tax. That’s probably a little high but whatever. If your AC pilot spends 30 years there then they’d already have 5-10 years of flying under their belt, although probably for not much money (~$50k after tax). Let’s say you upgrade after 10 years at AC and are a narrow body CA for the last 20 years. That’d be career earnings of around $3.6M. I fully agree the industry can suck nuts for people starting out (the few pre COVID years aside), but there is certainly high earning potential beyond what a lot of careers can offer if you’re able to put up with the bullshit for a few years to get yourself to the airline. And don’t forget about the good pension…. At the end of the day it can be a very good career for a lot of people, especially if you never lose that passion for flying. For those who see flying as just a job and nothing else, I think the outlook is much different. And don’t forget that it’s very possible for pilots to have a great career with less earnings, but a better lifestyle doing other types of flying.

[newlygrounded]

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere.

It’s your life to live but I recommend whatever you do don’t make important life decisions based on some exaggerated hypothetical situation you made up. Imagining yourself as a victim as a means of showing strength is just going to screw you in the long run. It’s just quitter shit and fine if you don’t pursue aviation, it’s not for everyone, but if this response to the possibility of any trace amount of hardship is a pattern for you I can’t stress enough how much better off you’ll be to not do that.

Or do, I’m not your guidance counselor.

It’s like the angry people who come out complaining about minimum wage and how it’s not enough to be a living wage. “I can’t buy a detached house in Toronto making min wage so I can’t live!” When could min wage ever buy someone a house in Toronto?

Who is saying this? I've not met a single person who wants a detached house and expect to get it on min wage. Some people want a sense of stability and to be able to afford rent with a full time job. I think that's a fair ask.

Didn’t this guy have a recent thread similarly whining about everything?

And? If complaining is a turn off I'm surprised you're on AV

[AIRSPEED_UNRELIABLE]

It is already recovering! Recalls have started and jets are being purchased. Canada will be short on pilots once again in 2022. Can not wait for all the headlines about cancelled flights starting Thanksgiving.

[some_q400_driver]

As an aspiring airline pilot I hope most airline pilots don't feel the same sentiments...

Throwaway account.

It's really not that bad. I've done enough crappy jobs to know that, while I'm not raking in the dough as a 2nd year FO on the Q400, I'm still making enough to live.

Really, what it comes down to is the fact that this job fulfills me. I have not been this satisfied with any job before this, or even during my COVID furlough.

After per diem and other additional monies are added, I made around $50,000 in my first year. This was flying a blue tail around.

I got the pairings I wanted (for the most part) and flew with amazing crews (for the most part). The only thing I didn't like was my time off during COVID, but I had a paycheck coming in the entire time because big blue kept us at arms length.

I might be the odd one out here, but I enjoy this job, this company, and this industry.

[flying4dollars]

It seems like every week there is either some bad news or some permanent agreement lowering pilot wages another 20% forever.

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere. I can't imagine how it will be in a few months?

What's the bad news that triggered this thread? Am I missing something?

[newlygrounded]

It seems like every week there is either some bad news or some permanent agreement lowering pilot wages another 20% forever.

I once wanted to pursue a pilot career but even in the best 2/3 years in history it seemed your best bet was to drive a forklift for at least a year to make $20,000 a year in the middle of nowhere. I can't imagine how it will be in a few months?

What's the bad news that triggered this thread? Am I missing something?

It seems more or less confirmed international travel won't fully recover till 2023 (So no job *overall* growth till after that) plus the delta/lamda variants might lock down international travel again.

[Ash Ketchum]

Yes the industry will recover. I actually love the work life balance of being a pilot - now I only get 2 day weekends then back to the cubicle for 5 days in a row.

[lownslow]

Yes the industry will recover. I actually love the work life balance of being a pilot - now I only get 2 day weekends then back to the cubicle for 5 days in a row.

Right? In 2019 when things were great I was rocking a reserve schedule (on purpose) that gave me 20 days off a month. I look forward to the return of that kind of schedule.

[Curiousflyer]

That is some dodgy math. $2M over 30 years is ~$67k per year after tax. That’s probably a little high but whatever. If your AC pilot spends 30 years there then they’d already have 5-10 years of flying under their belt, although probably for not much money (~$50k after tax). Let’s say you upgrade after 10 years at AC and are a narrow body CA for the last 20 years. That’d be career earnings of around $3.6M. I fully agree the industry can suck nuts for people starting out (the few pre COVID years aside), but there is certainly high earning potential beyond what a lot of careers can offer if you’re able to put up with the bullshit for a few years to get yourself to the airline. And don’t forget about the good pension…. At the end of the day it can be a very good career for a lot of people, especially if you never lose that passion for flying. For those who see flying as just a job and nothing else, I think the outlook is much different. And don’t forget that it’s very possible for pilots to have a great career with less earnings, but a better lifestyle doing other types of flying.

I just ran a 30 year career. If you stopped your calculation at 10 years as an AC NB captain the numbers come out similar. That extra 10 years at the end makes a big difference, but we all like to pretend that we won’t end up on disability for some stretch of time, but lots do. I chose teachers in my example as they also have a good pension, arguably better for those looking to retire early. Thanks for your response, it’s a good counter argument for those younger folks choosing a career path.