Hello Flair Pilots.

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:59 am

Actually nature boy, the lease cost of the DC-10 was killing ACE. They were making payments on an aircraft that was not flying. The DC-10 was not flying because there training program was not approved by transport, and rightfully so.

What ACE should have done was convert the DC-10 to a KC-10 and refuel their airplanes in the air. Then their crews could have flown longer then the 17 hr days they were normally doing.

WING IT · Post by **WING IT** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:23 am

PILOTS ARE WHINNY PEOPLE!

THE OWNERS OF ACE SAID TO THE ACE EMPLOYEES ON THE LAST DAY OF BUSINESS THAT THE PILOT UNION KILLED THE COMPANY.

IS THAT WHAT THE FLAIR PILOTS WANT???

tailgunner · Post by **tailgunner** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:38 am

When is the current Purolator contract up for renewal ?
Can Flair bid on this contract ?
If so, then I think the fears are quite justified....

asdfasd · Post by **asdfasd** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:21 am

teacher · Post by **teacher** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:08 pm

What killed ACE:

1) DC-10 training was not approved by transport AFTER several pilots had already went through it. By pulling the plug it grounded the plane which sat in the desert AFTER all the mods had been completed. Air Canada (the prime customer) than went with Global instead of ACE for the Europe flying which ended the only real client ACE had for the DC-10.

2) No other Canadian company has been able to do the Cuba contract for one simple reason. The Cubans don't pay well and no company has wanted to do the contract at the offered price. Flair may be doing Havana to Toronto but thats it.

There's probably a lot more reasons but these are the ones that I was aware of. As well, the pilots may have unionized BUT no changes to working conditions were ever implemented. The company went under oweing $10 million dollars. If you are gonna tell us that the debt was racked up in 6 months WITHOUT the pilots ever having a change in pay or working conditions your nuts.

I found this interesting link which gives a little backgrounder on ACE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllCanada_Express

Eh Pilit · Post by **Eh Pilit** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:29 am

teacher · Post by **teacher** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:19 am

If you're all knowing, please than, start a new thread and inform us all about what really happened.

Eh Pilit · Post by **Eh Pilit** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:27 am

Teacher, Relax !!! You didnt offend me or anything, nor did I want to critize/offend you. I was just adding that we're all just wrenches and pilots and we (that includes myself) can talk and talk all the theories but this is all for nothing. This is all old stuff, finito, gone but it keeps coming back like a boomerang. Laststandingpilot's is stiring some $H1*% and we're falling for it. Unions this, Unions that, zzz.zzz..zzz let's talk about flying, hot babes or even aspargus, but let's just let it go, let them say whatever they think about Ace, Flair and stupid unions. Your posting is interesting and it's fine with me. I was just adding comments, that's all. Read my posting again, you missed the point: I am not all knowing, we all dont know squat - you, me and even Sir laststandingpilot. Relax!

teacher · Post by **teacher** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:39 am

I guess I should have put a happy face next to my post

I'm relaxed, just still curious as to what you apparently know that the rest of the pilot group didn't.

Eh Pilit · Post by **Eh Pilit** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:02 am

Absolutely NOTHING ! ! ! (tha's what I'm trying to say!)

richardhead · Post by **richardhead** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:04 pm

whipline wrote:Actually nature boy, the lease cost of the DC-10 was killing ACE. They were making payments on an aircraft that was not flying. The DC-10 was not flying because there training program was not approved by transport, and rightfully so.

What ACE should have done was convert the DC-10 to a KC-10 and refuel their airplanes in the air. Then their crews could have flown longer then the 17 hr days they were normally doing.

It never ceases to amaze me how often it is that the people who have no idea what they are talking about always have the most to say.

richardhead · Post by **richardhead** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:06 pm

teacher wrote:What killed ACE:

1) DC-10 training was not approved by transport AFTER several pilots had already went through it. By pulling the plug it grounded the plane which sat in the desert AFTER all the mods had been completed. Air Canada (the prime customer) than went with Global instead of ACE for the Europe flying which ended the only real client ACE had for the DC-10.

2) No other Canadian company has been able to do the Cuba contract for one simple reason. The Cubans don't pay well and no company has wanted to do the contract at the offered price. Flair may be doing Havana to Toronto but thats it.

There's probably a lot more reasons but these are the ones that I was aware of. As well, the pilots may have unionized BUT no changes to working conditions were ever implemented. The company went under oweing $10 million dollars. If you are gonna tell us that the debt was racked up in 6 months WITHOUT the pilots ever having a change in pay or working conditions your nuts.

Actually not true.
I found this interesting link which gives a little backgrounder on ACE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllCanada_Express

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:34 pm

Feel free to explain yourself richardred. The DC-10 was rumoured to be costing ACE 240,000 US per month and not flying. The FCTM/SOP's were in a duo-tang. The sim profiles were written down on a napkin. Another bad company that went bankrupt, and as a profession we are all better for it, goodbye!!

richardhead · Post by **richardhead** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:15 pm

whipline wrote:Feel free to explain yourself richardred. The DC-10 was rumoured to be costing ACE 240,000 US per month and not flying. The FCTM/SOP's were in a duo-tang. The sim profiles were written down on a napkin. Another bad company that went bankrupt, and as a profession we are all better for it, goodbye!!

Rumoured to be costing. What was it costing? Do you know? Written on a napkin. Must have been a nice napkin because I heard Trasport got thier rating on it. And as far as bad companies go, probably not the best company in the world but hey which one is?

WING IT · Post by **WING IT** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:40 pm

The lease was never signed.

WING IT · Post by **WING IT** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:49 pm

March 14 2005 was when the DC-10-30F was given a type certificate in Canada. All paid for and the information provided by ACE.

So they could get an aircraft approved but not a sim course, that sounds a little fishy to me.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/applicatio ... num=050033

MyWave · Post by **MyWave** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:07 am

Eh Pilit wrote::Laststandingpilot's is stiring some $H1*% and we're falling for it. Unions this, Unions that, zzz.zzz..zzz let's talk about flying, hot babes or even aspargus, but let's just let it go, let them say whatever they think about Ace, Flair and stupid unions......I am not all knowing, we all dont know squat - you, me and even Sir laststandingpilot. Relax!

Well put!

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:50 am

ace was an awesome place to work period.. that is until the union ruined it, divided the pilots,limited contracts,and the union duefess became a communist leader costing many pilot there jobs and many many dollars.

as for the dc 10.. transport canada participated in the inital training of the first group of pilots and all obtained valid PPC's. there was no way the owner of ACE was bringing the tens to canada for the caw to ruin.

dont forget there were other options rather than the caw. when the owner said.... if you go with the caw im shutting the doors...mmm i wonder what that meant?

wonder where we would all be if that had not of happened?

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:54 am

P.S... guess we will wait and see how round 2 plays out!

DA900 · Post by **DA900** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:32 pm

Not to highjack this thread, but does anyone know why Flair's "leaving on a jet plane" has been sitting in Edmonton for the last two weeks, or if it has even flown anywhere? I have not seen it move even to just keep the tires from getting flat. Just wondering....

Hello Flair Pilots.

flair