i just don't get why so many people care about what we get paid...its our job, and if you don't like the pay don't come here....I don't like listening to you wine on here...and I'd hate it even more to have you sitting beside me wining.
The rest of my post was explaining my original comment of:
85 K for a Captain on an airliner.....
Thanks guys for bringing the pay curve way down.
And I even ignored the fact you called me an idiot.
so lets see...... you are the one calling others names and I'm the child? Do you understand what I am saying about the pay curve or are you just going to call me more hurtful names like idiot and a child?
Are you really holding Canjet pilots responsible for the current salary scale?
That seems a little inappropriate to me...after all isn't management one half of this dance? Of course Canjet pilots held out for as much as they could, as long as they could...do you think otherwise?
Ya we may have brought your pay scales down some, but at least we helped ressurect a company and produce hundreds of pilot jobs for Canada. With Transat fighting tooth and nail to recover some of the flying lost to us, and our renegotiations coming up I'm sure ALL our salaries will go up.
If you don't like it, then dedicate some time to the 'college of professional pilots' Once that happens we'll all be ok right?
(so tired of people who think any pilot working for OTHER then AC/WJ is shit)
Sorry CJ6 and Anti Ice but these guys are right. There are King Air/Metro pilots almost making that much. Ken is living like a king at the sacrifice of you guys.
You are bang on, the pay at Canjet is not enough, not even close. I am one of those making 85k. yes it does lower the bar. I never said i was happy about it. Please tell me what I was supposed to do, unemployed with a wife on mat leave and a baby on the way. 750$ every 2 weeks on EI just doesn't cut it. Ask yourself this, would you have taken the job in my or just about all my colleagues position? or would you wait it out to “show them” and feed your family KD.
My priority is my wife and my child. period. Now that i have a job and money is coming in I can look for something else, but at the time there was nothing.
If you think we are happy about it you guys are way off the mark, i don't know any of us are content with the pay scale, but again we had no choice.
When the industry picks and more jobs become available i think you will see people move on. But till then please try and understand our position and not that this makes it ok but 85K was a huge improvement on what was being paid to year 1 captain at C6 in the past.
I thought we were all on the same team here, I am sick and tired of getting the sly looks at the terminals and airports, you don't know my situation so please don't judge me.
If you ask me you are the ones lowering the bar of professionalism amongst pilots. And for those other ALPA members out there why don’t you have a read of the ALPA code of ethics once and a while.
I hope you never have to go through a bankruptcy as I did, but if you ever do I will guarantee you that you would have done the exact same thing as me.
stick_shaker wrote:You are bang on, the pay at Canjet is not enough, not even close. I am one of those making 85k. yes it does lower the bar. I never said i was happy about it. Please tell me what I was supposed to do, unemployed with a wife on mat leave and a baby on the way. 750$ every 2 weeks on EI just doesn't cut it. Ask yourself this, would you have taken the job in my or just about all my colleagues position? or would you wait it out to “show them” and feed your family KD.
My priority is my wife and my child. period. Now that i have a job and money is coming in I can look for something else, but at the time there was nothing.
If you think we are happy about it you guys are way off the mark, i don't know any of us are content with the pay scale, but again we had no choice.
When the industry picks and more jobs become available i think you will see people move on. But till then please try and understand our position and not that this makes it ok but 85K was a huge improvement on what was being paid to year 1 captain at C6 in the past.
I thought we were all on the same team here, I am sick and tired of getting the sly looks at the terminals and airports, you don't know my situation so please don't judge me.
If you ask me you are the ones lowering the bar of professionalism amongst pilots. And for those other ALPA members out there why don’t you have a read of the ALPA code of ethics once and a while.
I hope you never have to go through a bankruptcy as I did, but if you ever do I will guarantee you that you would have done the exact same thing as me.
With reference to the bold print, who was that bankruptcy with and were you actively seeking employment elsewhere at that time as well?
Hey Stick shaker I hear ya. I HAVE been there. I think what most people really mean is it is the pilot in general to blame. The first person that accepted the original wages that Rowe was offering set the bar for the rest of you. But then again every pilot has done it and will continue to do it. I hope you guys do get HUGE raises over there next time around. I hate seeing the greedy owners getting rich of the backs of the hard working employee. But until EVERY pilot says no way nothing will ever change.
If you think we are happy about it you guys are way off the mark, i don't know any of us are content with the pay scale, but again we had no choice.
So the real question is, what are you willing to do to improve this situation in the future? Your colleagues and your industry are depending on guys that had to "suck it up for family" to make a difference and improve wages and work conditions. If you fail to improve it, you are contributing to the degradation of the industry for all. If $85k is ok this year, will $80k be ok next year?
Listen Stick Shaker, and all the rest of you who think our package is wanting.
Understand this. The survival record of airlines in this country is not good. So many have tried to be profitable and failed. God knows, we, who have lived through all the previous versions of CanJet and Air Atlantic before that have tried many different models and business plans attempting to make it worthwhile for the investor to keep throwing money at it.
The bottom line is none of them were financially worthwhile. They didnt make money.
Now we have Canjet 3. We have found a nich for ourselves because of our costs, we are competitive and therefore of interest to companies like Air Transat. If our costs rise then we are no longer competitive and no longer interesting to the likes of Air Transat et al. Then where are we? We are one of the few airlines that have survived and this is due to a cost structure that makes our operation sustainable for the guy throwing money at it. By constantly referring to our present pay as $85K for an "NG skipper" , as presented, is misleading and not representative of the whole story. The range is $85K to $140K. Not the highest but not the lowest. Most guys can easilly add $5K to $15K for stats and overtime. Generally 12 to 15 days off, good pension, insurance,medical and dental, passports and uniforms paid for, etc,etc.
I might be off on these and it may be old information: does not SunWing start at $80K or so, how about Zoom when they were around? Wasnt that $80K or so to start. What does first year AC start at for an FO, $34? How about WJ?
The point is, when you look at the range and add in the cost of the benefits its fair and reasonable. So, here are you guys tossed out on the street, you get lucky and get ...direct entry left seat at CanJet and now your complaining....................already? We are a small airline with nowhere near the revenues of the majors. If we are not competitive boys, then you will end up right back where we found you, in the unemployment line like the rest of us.
You can pound your breasts all you want about what you think you deserve....wake up! Like I said the history on airlines in this country is deplorable. If you dont have a nich or a competitive edge your gone....just like all the others that went down to end up on the scrap heap before us. Its survival of the fittest boys. Pull your belt tight and suck it up.
Forget all this BS about setting a precedent for wages so that others might benefit. None of those guys will buy you a coffee when you are on UI.
You have a good job and situation. Why not take all that energy you have for worrying that someone else is making a few dollars more, or, what someone else is telling you you should be making, and focus it on something useful like helping us ensure this thing remains competitive and survives where many others have not..
T
Not sure why you are attacking me as I was only defending my own personal position to all those that criticise us direct entry captains for taking the job. My point was that each of us has a reason for doing what we do. Of course if you were flying a King Air and got offered an NG job you are going to take it. And of course if you are unemployed and you are offered a DEC spot you are going to take it. I am not pounding my chest for what I think I deserve. My point was that it is real easy to criticise people for their decisions when you haven’t been faced with the same situation.
I have always considered myself “lucky” for the opportunity to get a direct left seat considering the condition of the industry. I never said that Canjet was not a good place to work. Quite the contrary, I enjoy going to work. We fly to nice destinations with good aircraft, nice schedules and great people, there are many good things here at Canjet.
Your wage descriptions for the other carriers isn’t really fair or accurate, why not ask what does a sunwing 2nd yr captain make or what a 3rd year WJ FO makes. Why not ask what a first air 737-200 Captain makes or a Nolinor 737-200 or a Canadian North 737-200, all profitable airlines.
Of course i want Canjet to remain profitable so that you and I and all our other colleagues remain employed, and I do take offense at the helping out comment, as if i was doing something to hinder the viability of the company. I go to work everyday with a professional attitude and do the best job I can, because that’s what is expected from me. I have done my fair share of helping out and it wasn’t all OT.
I will admit that I am a little peeved at myself for even jumping into this discussion in the first place, nothing is ever solved on these boards, I should have heeded my own advice when it come to these boards. Just ignore it. As you said in your other thread “don’t take the bait” so that being said I am dropping out of this discussion.
stick_shaker wrote: why not ask what does a sunwing 2nd yr captain make or what a 3rd year WJ FO makes. Why not ask what a first air 737-200 Captain makes or a Nolinor 737-200 or a Canadian North 737-200, all profitable airlines.
Of course they are doing great. If you accept a payscale that low someone will employ your services for a period of time. I hope that you recognize that it is way below industry standard and begin negotiating for higher pay over the next 5 years. Someone is making a great deal of money on your backs. In the meantime the pilots at Air Transat are trying not to lose all of the benefits that they have fought tooth and nail for over the past 22 years. This becomes our business because, to a certain degree, all of our paycheques are based on what the next guy makes.
It won't be long before some of those pilots in YHZ are forced to move to YYZ, YVR and all of the other cities with larger airports and most of the population in this country. We will see how $85K looks then for all of their professional experience.
You guys are all the reason aviation blows in this frigin country. All the high and mighties forget the days they worked for peanuts all in the name of building hours. Or guys who paid for endorsements in the name of getting jet time. Air Canada, transat sky sunwing westjet all of them have one thing in common. They know that as Canadian pilots we would rather come here and cry Foul!! Rather get together stop pointing fingers and make airlines realize that like every other countries pilots The DAY we get our licences we are professionals and we deserve bettter. But we have bent over (all of us at one time or another) and takin it in the hoop so much that we no longer believe it's not us doin the fuckin, it's the owners, are clearly smarter than us. We cry in here they laugh on the way to the bank. Don't kid yourself there isn't a Canadian airline owner past or present that will ever lose a dollar of his own money.
Just ranting......... 14hr duty days will do that to you. Buts that's a whole nother topic
