Canada Jetlines

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FL7377
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by FL7377 »

True North wrote:
FL7377 wrote:Yes I do remember Jetsgo and Canada 300 (vaguely) but jetlines is a different animal. Jetlines looks to be operating on the fringes of AC/WJ, and not a direct competitor.
Have you done any research at all? Have a look at Jetlines route map. They won't be going head-to-head with AC or WJ to Flin Flon - that's gonna be a licence to print money with 737 :roll: - but everywhere else they are planning to go is already serviced by AC/Jazz or WJ/Encore.

History has clearly illustrated that the geography and population base of Canada can support a duopoly of scheduled national/international carriers. As PROC_HDG pointed out, all Jetlines will do is erode pay and working conditions in the industry. While they are still in business they will erode margins at the other carriers which will curtail growth and slow hiring. Then they will disappear putting employees back on the street.

Air Canada and WestJet are both strong, healthy companies right now. They are expanding and hiring. Better they should continue to do that and offer careers with excellent pay and working conditions for those who want to stay and work in Canada. Although I guess if all you are looking for is an endorsement so you can sell your services overseas, Jetlines could look like a good thing.

The fact that you think someone should fly you from Winnipeg to Japan for $100 shows you're part of the problem. For some reason, people think flying should be cheaper than taking the bus. In fact, the base airline fare often is lower than the bus fare but when all the government fees and taxes are added in it's not. If you want cheaper fares, petition your MLA and tell him to tell the government to stop treating the airline industry like a cash cow.

Canada Jetlines is a joke, a very bad joke for the Canadian Airline industry.
Do I want cheap airfare? darn right! I also want cheap cars, cheap clothes, cheap food, cheap taxes ect.. Its how we run capitalism there comrade! If you want a scapegoat for capitalism's woes blame the global central banks for having Fiat currency with a policy of Quantitative Easing.

I'm expecting Jetlines to do the same thing for canadian aviation as Target did for canadian retail. Target came in, droped several billion and died, now Walmart, Sobeys and Loblaws get to feast on the corps. I'm with you that Canada can only support a duopoly of airlines. However I'm expecting Jetlines to come in, drop several hundred million, increase the market, then die, and AC/WJ will feast on the corpse of Jetlines.

Long term, I'm only seeing this as a positive thing! Go Jetlines, go!
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AirMail
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by AirMail »

And with the cheap air fares comes under paid pilots. Which from the sounds of it you are willing to sign up for. Thanks for being a part of the problem.
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FL7377
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by FL7377 »

AirMail wrote:And with the cheap air fares comes under paid pilots. Which from the sounds of it you are willing to sign up for. Thanks for being a part of the problem.

Did I say I'm an airline pilot? I fly to "most-people-can't-find-it-on-a-map Lake" I'm paid very well for what I do, thank you very much.
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by pianokeys »

As everyone has said, this is gonna be horrible for the Canadian aviation industry. You cannot compare a 737 operator to an airline like Encore, Jazz, Sky Regional because they operate much smaller airplanes, so you cannot say the wage "bar" is already low because of these operators. This airline is promising low fares, and the highest cost to any airline other than fuel is it's people. So chances are it's going to undercut the majors like AC and WS in terms of pay and set a new, American like, standard of wages for everyone from pilots, mx, agents/ground crew etc...

And then once the airline goes bankrupt or pulls a JetsGo, all of those underpaid employees will be out of work. Stressing the economy.

You can't sit there and honestly tell me that a city of 500k which is 2.5 hours away from YUL can sustain a daily YQB-YYC service because the market is "untapped" similar to the mini-van example used. If it was worth it, AC or WS would already be on it. But AC is in a way, using QK as a feeder.

The reason why no one lost jobs at AC when WS started was because WS was small for a long time, even after Canadian disappeared. Remember, WS didn't make it's way to YHZ till 2003.

JetsGo and Jetlines are the same animal. They have the same product. Cheap, cheap flights.
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by leftoftrack »

How has Jetlines put down a deposit with Boeing for an order of 737 max's with $500 000.00 in assets?
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FL7377
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by FL7377 »

pianokeys wrote:As everyone has said, this is gonna be horrible for the Canadian aviation industry. You cannot compare a 737 operator to an airline like Encore, Jazz, Sky Regional because they operate much smaller airplanes, so you cannot say the wage "bar" is already low because of these operators. This airline is promising low fares, and the highest cost to any airline other than fuel is it's people. So chances are it's going to undercut the majors like AC and WS in terms of pay and set a new, American like, standard of wages for everyone from pilots, mx, agents/ground crew etc...

And then once the airline goes bankrupt or pulls a JetsGo, all of those underpaid employees will be out of work. Stressing the economy.

You can't sit there and honestly tell me that a city of 500k which is 2.5 hours away from YUL can sustain a daily YQB-YYC service because the market is "untapped" similar to the mini-van example used. If it was worth it, AC or WS would already be on it. But AC is in a way, using QK as a feeder.

The reason why no one lost jobs at AC when WS started was because WS was small for a long time, even after Canadian disappeared. Remember, WS didn't make it's way to YHZ till 2003.

JetsGo and Jetlines are the same animal. They have the same product. Cheap, cheap flights.
Thats some good points Pianokeys,

No one lost thier job at AC because WJ stayed small and grew thier market. Sounds like exactly what Jetlines plans on doing, staying small, growing its market and avoiding head-on competition. WJ/AC employees need not worry.

I will still stress the point that established companies don't always grow their markets properly. Wether it be airlines, auto makers or retail giants, incumbents fight for the status quo.

And yes, you can't compare a LLC 737 operator with Encore or Jazz today. But the bigger point is AC is spawning companies to provide internal competition, which creates cost pressure. If Jazz can't make a route economical, Jazz Rouge will bid for the work, if Sky Reg can't make money on a route, Georgian will bid for it and so on and so forth until a bottom is found. If Jazz needs 737's, Sky needs EMB's, or if Georgian needs Navajo's you bet given time, it'll happen - its how capitalism is run.
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FL7377
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by FL7377 »

leftoftrack wrote:How has Jetlines put down a deposit with Boeing for an order of 737 max's with $500 000.00 in assets?

The short answer is, the public doesn't know.

"On December 11, 2014, Canada Jetlines signed a definitive purchase agreement with The Boeing Company. The agreement includes five firm orders for new Boeing 737 MAX aircraft and purchase rights for an additional sixteen with delivery scheduled to begin in 2021."

I havn't seen any news release that breaks down what down payment has been made, or what is required. Just 5 "firm" orders with options for 16 with delivery to begin in 2021. We can be confident that if this airline doesn't make it to 2021, Boeing isn't going to deliver 5 new machines to an airline that doesn't exist lol. I'm sure what ever contract that has been signed has a few "outs" if things don't go well.

What machines they will fly from 2015-2021 is anyone's guess. Wet-lease Canjet? Lease foreign aircraft? Buy older Canadian registered 737's? the speculation is endless.....
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by boeingboy »

The short answer is, the public doesn't know.

"On December 11, 2014, Canada Jetlines signed a definitive purchase agreement with The Boeing Company. The agreement includes five firm orders for new Boeing 737 MAX aircraft and purchase rights for an additional sixteen with delivery scheduled to begin in 2021."

I havn't seen any news release that breaks down what down payment has been made, or what is required. Just 5 "firm" orders with options for 16 with delivery to begin in 2021. We can be confident that if this airline doesn't make it to 2021, Boeing isn't going to deliver 5 new machines to an airline that doesn't exist lol. I'm sure what ever contract that has been signed has a few "outs" if things don't go well.

What machines they will fly from 2015-2021 is anyone's guess. Wet-lease Canjet? Lease foreign aircraft? Buy older Canadian registered 737's? the speculation is endless.....
When you get more than a year or two in this industry - you'll find out how things really work. There are more than enough facts out there to see this is a clown school.

They already said after the 300's they will get NG's and then get Max's........yea when pigs fly. As for your short answer - we do know....they haven't paid anything for them yet. Anyone can go sign an LOI for airplanes as long as you have a few things in place. They have to meet certain conditions or Boeing will simply give the slot to someone else.

"In December 2014, the carrier in conjunction with parent Inovent Capital Inc. announced plans to go public on the TSX Venture Exchange. Overall, it hopes to realize at least CAD50million (USD43.16million) in funds from the offering.

The IPO is critical to the carrier's fleeting plans as Boeing (BOE, Chicago O'Hare) has the unilateral right to either terminate its agreement or amend certain of its terms if Jetlines has not raised, by way of a debt or equity or otherwise, at least CAD8 million by January 15, 2015 or CAD35 million by May 31, 2015, or has failed to secure it AOC from the CTA by May 31, 2015. "

Now since they voluntarily pulled out of the IPO and Inovent is now suing them - that cant bode well for the new fleet - can it??..........
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by Old fella »

When you get more than a year or two in this industry - you'll find out how things really work. There are more than enough facts out there to see this is a clown school.

They already said after the 300's they will get NG's and then get Max's........yea when pigs fly. As for your short answer - we do know....they haven't paid anything for them yet. Anyone can go sign an LOI for airplanes as long as you have a few things in place. They have to meet certain conditions or Boeing will simply give the slot to someone else.

"In December 2014, the carrier in conjunction with parent Inovent Capital Inc. announced plans to go public on the TSX Venture Exchange. Overall, it hopes to realize at least CAD50million (USD43.16million) in funds from the offering.

The IPO is critical to the carrier's fleeting plans as Boeing (BOE, Chicago O'Hare) has the unilateral right to either terminate its agreement or amend certain of its terms if Jetlines has not raised, by way of a debt or equity or otherwise, at least CAD8 million by January 15, 2015 or CAD35 million by May 31, 2015, or has failed to secure it AOC from the CTA by May 31, 2015. "

Now since they voluntarily pulled out of the IPO and Inovent is now suing them - that cant bode well for the new fleet - can it??..........


Thar sir, is the very truth of the matter, also a good indication why there isn't any infrastructure in place for a proposed summer 2015 start-up by this new airline. One doesn't need to have genius capability to understand something isn't adding up or not quite right with this scheme. I bet this proposal will die a certain death and the Executives of this company will publically state a conspiracy from the two big colors (Teal and Red) to keep them out of the market along with way too much Government regulations/ interference and needless red tape to get their dreams off the ground. Just wait!!!

By your leave.
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by sarg »

FL7377 wrote:
AirMail wrote:And with the cheap air fares comes under paid pilots. Which from the sounds of it you are willing to sign up for. Thanks for being a part of the problem.

Did I say I'm an airline pilot? I fly to "most-people-can't-find-it-on-a-map Lake" I'm paid very well for what I do, thank you very much.
You missed his point Air Mail, he's saying this doesn't effect him so he doesn't care as long as he can save money flying to where he wants to go on holidays. He's still part of the problem just in a different area.

He's the type of guy that complains that he can't get a good job in manufacturing, sales or whatever, but going to Walmart to buy his clothes to save $$ knowing full well that most of the products sold are sourced from overseas.

Target didn't create any new consumers the people that shopped there would have shopped at Walmart or Loblaw's if Target wasn't in the marketplace. The corpse that Walmart et al are getting to feast on now was paid for by lower margins for the last couple of years.
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by True North »

FL7377 wrote:Do I want cheap airfare? darn right! I also want cheap cars, cheap clothes, cheap food, cheap taxes ect.. Its how we run capitalism there comrade! If you want a scapegoat for capitalism's woes blame the global central banks for having Fiat currency with a policy of Quantitative Easing.

I'm expecting Jetlines to do the same thing for canadian aviation as Target did for canadian retail. Target came in, droped several billion and died, now Walmart, Sobeys and Loblaws get to feast on the corps. I'm with you that Canada can only support a duopoly of airlines. However I'm expecting Jetlines to come in, drop several hundred million, increase the market, then die, and AC/WJ will feast on the corpse of Jetlines.

Long term, I'm only seeing this as a positive thing! Go Jetlines, go!
Gawd I hope you're a better pilot than you are an economist otherwise your passengers are in grave danger. :shock:
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by midwingcrisis »

Inovent Commences Court Proceedings Foreclosing on All Assets of Canada Jetlines Ltd.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/inovent-c ... 00624.html
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

The good ship Canada Jetlines:

Glug, Glug, Glug, Glug..........
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by boeingboy »

Don't worry guys - It's a minor glitch. No big deal.

Right?.................Right?.......................GUYS???

:roll:

I wonder what the cheerleaders can come up with now?
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by Old fella »

midwingcrisis wrote:Inovent Commences Court Proceedings Foreclosing on All Assets of Canada Jetlines Ltd.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/inovent-c ... 00624.html

What assets did they have outside of a WEB page and a room number at YVR International...............
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by midwingcrisis »

Jetlines’ Response to Capital Pool Company Allegations


http://www.jetlines.ca/2015/03/16/jetli ... legations/


March 16, 2015

Although it has not yet been served with any legal process, Jetlines wishes to advise that it is aware of a Petition against Jetlines in the Supreme Court of British Columbia dated March 12, 2015 which was filed with the court by Inovent Capital Inc. (Inovent). Jetlines has yet to have released to it by the Court Registry the important supporting documents to the Petition which were filed with the courts.

Inovent is a capital pool company, specifically a shell company that has completed an initial public offering, raised a modest amount of money and obtained a listing on the TSX-V exchange, with the sole purpose of completing a qualifying transaction. On June 27, 2014, Inovent and Jetlines executed a Letter of lntent whereby Jetlines would “go public” by a reverse takeover transaction which would be Inovent’s required qualifying transaction. The non-binding Letter of Intent was superseded by an amalgamation agreement on September 12, 2014. Jetlines regarded the transaction as an expeditious way to “go public” in a relatively short period of time. The transaction was documented by the normal commercial agreements for this type of transaction.

When market conditions resulted in delays in the completion of the reverse takeover transaction, Jetlines requested that Inovent extend the date to complete the transaction beyond the contractual “outside date” of January 31, 2015. When Jetlines received responses from Inovent to this extension request the responses were, in the opinion of Jetlines, inappropriate and not consistent with the expected business relationship of a trusted co-venture partner in the important business of launching an operating airline. Accordingly, Jetlines terminated the agreement in accordance with its terms.

One of the commercial documents for the transaction was a general security agreement in favour of Inovent for certain specified amounts. Jetlines fulfilled its obligations under the general security agreement and, in its opinion, is entitled to have Inovent’s security interest discharged. Jetlines is taking the necessary steps to discharge the general security agreement.

Jetlines has at all times acted legally, ethically and honestly and states that Inovent’s claims are without merit and Jetlines intends to take an appropriate legal actions to respond to the meritless assertions of Inovent.

About Canada Jetlines

With pending successful funding and regulatory approval Jetlines plans to launch an airline in Canada in 2015 that applies Ultra-Low Cost Carrier operating principles. Focusing on stimulating passenger demand through low priced airfares Jetlines will generate additional revenue from the sale of ancillary products and services. The intent is to select routes that avoid direct competition with existing Canadian carriers while maintaining cost discipline to keep operating expenses low.

For more information please contact:

David Solloway
President
Tel: 604-273-5387
david.solloway@jetlines.ca

www.jetlines.ca
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by Canadianjetpilot »

midwingcrisis wrote:Jetlines’ Response to Capital Pool Company Allegations


http://www.jetlines.ca/2015/03/16/jetli ... legations/


March 16, 2015

Although it has not yet been served with any legal process, Jetlines wishes to advise that it is aware of a Petition against Jetlines in the Supreme Court of British Columbia dated March 12, 2015 which was filed with the court by Inovent Capital Inc. (Inovent). Jetlines has yet to have released to it by the Court Registry the important supporting documents to the Petition which were filed with the courts.

Inovent is a capital pool company, specifically a shell company that has completed an initial public offering, raised a modest amount of money and obtained a listing on the TSX-V exchange, with the sole purpose of completing a qualifying transaction. On June 27, 2014, Inovent and Jetlines executed a Letter of lntent whereby Jetlines would “go public” by a reverse takeover transaction which would be Inovent’s required qualifying transaction. The non-binding Letter of Intent was superseded by an amalgamation agreement on September 12, 2014. Jetlines regarded the transaction as an expeditious way to “go public” in a relatively short period of time. The transaction was documented by the normal commercial agreements for this type of transaction.

When market conditions resulted in delays in the completion of the reverse takeover transaction, Jetlines requested that Inovent extend the date to complete the transaction beyond the contractual “outside date” of January 31, 2015. When Jetlines received responses from Inovent to this extension request the responses were, in the opinion of Jetlines, inappropriate and not consistent with the expected business relationship of a trusted co-venture partner in the important business of launching an operating airline. Accordingly, Jetlines terminated the agreement in accordance with its terms.

One of the commercial documents for the transaction was a general security agreement in favour of Inovent for certain specified amounts. Jetlines fulfilled its obligations under the general security agreement and, in its opinion, is entitled to have Inovent’s security interest discharged. Jetlines is taking the necessary steps to discharge the general security agreement.

Jetlines has at all times acted legally, ethically and honestly and states that Inovent’s claims are without merit and Jetlines intends to take an appropriate legal actions to respond to the meritless assertions of Inovent.

About Canada Jetlines

With pending successful funding and regulatory approval Jetlines plans to launch an airline in Canada in 2015 that applies Ultra-Low Cost Carrier operating principles. Focusing on stimulating passenger demand through low priced airfares Jetlines will generate additional revenue from the sale of ancillary products and services. The intent is to select routes that avoid direct competition with existing Canadian carriers while maintaining cost discipline to keep operating expenses low.

For more information please contact:

David Solloway
President
Tel: 604-273-5387
david.solloway@jetlines.ca

http://www.jetlines.ca
David,

Now all you need is:

-Airplanes
-Pilots
-Cabin Crew
-Staff
-Office space ( that closet at YVR doesn't count BTW)
-Maintenance
-Maintenance facility
-Slot times

And you're still calling a 2015 start? Gutsy move Mav.
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by Stoptheworld »

...and money...a whole lotta money
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by Old fella »

Latest from the Globe a few days ago....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... e23570549/
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Re: Canada Jetlines

Post by creativeaviation »

I have a aviation blog that talks about low cost carriers (LCC) and off course Canada Jetline and Jet Naked

www.aviationdoctor.wordpress.com
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