Sunwing discriminates against Canadian pilots

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Every year, Sunwing Arilines hires seasonal pilots for its peak winter season. It operates about 6 aircraft in Canada in the summer, sends a few aircraft on wet-leases to Europe (4 went this summer) and in winter it increases its fleet to an ever increasing number of aircraft : 23 in 2011/2012, 29 in 2012/2013 and 32 in 2013/2014. To crew these additional winter aircraft, it resorts to two methods:

The first is that is uses wet-lease of foreign aircraft. In 2011/2012 it wet leased 1 B-737 (I am refering to the winter season here so will overlook the other two wet-leases which concerned two B-767s for the summer season). In 2012/2013 it wet-leased 4 B-737s. In 2013/2014 it wet -leased 5 B-737s.

The balance of the additional aircraft are short term dry-leases (3 to 7 months) which are either sourced with one of the many TUI owned airlines (Thomson, TUIfly, ArkFly, JetAirFly) or Czech Travel Service. Then they hire seasonal pilots to crew these addition dry-leases. These past two seasons, to satisfy ESDC that they were making a "reasonable effort to hire and train Canadians", Sunwing Airlines hired some Canadian seasonal pilots as First Officers, about 20 in 2012/2013 and 40 in 2013/2014.

They also hired about 120 Foreign Seasonal pilots, about half of which were hired as seasonal Direct Entry Captains.

Sunwing pilots are now unionized and have their second contract with their employer. That contract is public and available on the web:

I downloaded it and it can be consulted here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqnch4e6du5ek ... No%202.pdf

Now look at these articles:

6.8 Seasonal Canadian Flight Crew Members (Effective June 1, 2013)
6.8.1 General
a) The Company may have a requirement to hire Seasonal Canadian Flight Crew Members to meet operational demands.
b) Seasonal Canadian Flight Crew Members will not be used when a full time Flight Crew
Member is on furlough.
c) After 12 months of continuous service, a Seasonal Canadian Flight Crew Member shall become a permanent employee.
d) Seasonal Canadian Flight Crew Member shall be First Officers only.
e) The Company may offer a Seasonal Canadian Flight Crew Member a permanent position at any time

6.9 Foreign Flight Crew Members
6.9.1 The Company may contract Foreign Flight Crew Members subject to the following conditions:
a) Foreign Flight Crew Members will not be used when any full time Flight Crew Member is furloughed;
b) Foreign Flight Crew Members will be subject to the scheduling rules of this Agreement;
c) The Company will endeavor not to contract more Foreign Flight Crew Member Captains than Foreign Flight Crew Member First Officers. The Company will have meaningful consultation with the Union if there is a need to bring in more Foreign Flight Crew Member Captains than Foreign Flight Crew Member First Officers. The Company will ensure that all qualified First Officers have been upgraded if Foreign Flight Crew Member Captains exceed Foreign Flight Crew Member First Officers.
d) Each Foreign Flight Crew Member must wear a uniform consistent with his/her status;
e) The Company will only contract a Foreign Flight Crew Member for the winter season.

So there are clauses that state that Sunwing Airlines is allowed to hire Seasonal pilots as Captains, as long as they are Foreigners, but not if they are Canadian.

So Sunwing publishes advertisements in Canada for seasonal pilots, tells Canadian applicants that those seasonal positions are for First Officer positions only, and then turns around and hires dozens of foreign seasonal Captains.

How can such blatant discrimination against Canadian Workers and in favor of TFW be tolerated.?

It clearly is not legal.

Yet for many years, Sunwing has hired foreign seasonal Captains but has a policy of not hiring Canadian seasonal captains.

And no one has a problem with that ? The Government ? ESDC ? Immigration Canada ? No one ?

Gilles Hudicourt

[wallflower]

I'm sure I'm not the only one fed up with this obsessed guy and his drivel.
maybe the Avcanada censorship can get rid of it.

[sstaurus]

I'm sure I'm not the only one fed up with this obsessed guy and his drivel.
maybe the Avcanada censorship can get rid of it.

Yes, wallflower, we should all be in debt to your obvious contributions to making aviation in Canada better. Maybe you shouldn't put down those with actual ambition.

[LivingLife]

I'm sure I'm not the only one fed up with this obsessed guy and his drivel.
maybe the Avcanada censorship can get rid of it.

Yes, wallflower, we should all be in debt to your obvious contributions to making aviation in Canada better. Maybe you shouldn't put down those with actual ambition.

Agreed sstaurus.

Gilles is only trying to help everyone involved in the canadian aviation industry. He's doing a great job. keep at it Gilles!

Sunwing pilots...it's time to stand up to your company and stop allowing all these foreign pilots taking your positions!

[Jim la Jungle]

I'm impressed with Gilles' devotion to the cause. On the other hand, wallflowers keep staring at the sun all day. Such a pretty flower.

[gonnabeapilot]

I'm sure I'm not the only one fed up with this obsessed guy and his drivel.
maybe the Avcanada censorship can get rid of it.

Yes, wallflower, we should all be in debt to your obvious contributions to making aviation in Canada better. Maybe you shouldn't put down those with actual ambition.

Agreed sstaurus.

Gilles is only trying to help everyone involved in the canadian aviation industry. He's doing a great job. keep at it Gilles!

Sunwing pilots...it's time to stand up to your company and stop allowing all these foreign pilots taking your positions!

Ummm, you do recognize that what has been quoted by Gilles comes from the Sunwing CBA, right?? Those clauses have been mutually agreed upon by both the company and the union and there are benefits to both groups by having them. It's not like Sunwing has these secret rules that the employees are not aware of and Gilles has just now revealed. If and when these sections of the contract are changed, they will only be changed because the changes will offer a greater advantage to both the company and the Sunwing pilot group. As has been mentioned many times on here before, Sunwing must allow European Captains to come here in the winter in order for the Europeans to allow Canadian Captains to head to Europe in the summer... it's as simple as that.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Ummm, you do recognize that what has been quoted by Gilles comes from the Sunwing CBA, right?? Those clauses have been mutually agreed upon by both the company and the union and there are benefits to both groups by having them. It's not like Sunwing has these secret rules that the employees are not aware of and Gilles has just now revealed. If and when these sections of the contract are changed, they will only be changed because the changes will offer a greater advantage to both the company and the Sunwing pilot group. As has been mentioned many times on here before, Sunwing must allow European Captains to come here in the winter in order for the Europeans to allow Canadian Captains to head to Europe in the summer... it's as simple as that.

As I have written here many times before and that you have chosen to ignore every time:

Sunwing sent 4 wet-leases to Europe, including 36 Canadian Captains.
In exchange, Sunwing is wet-leasing 4 Travel Service aircraft with an equal number of foreign Captains (For the time being but I expect another wet-lease application soon)

That fulfills the captain exchange. Period.

The 60 additional TFW captains represent 60 more European Captains coming to Canada than Sunwings sends to Europe.

The 60 TFW FOs that come to Canada represent 60 more European FOs coming to Canada than Sunwing sends to Europe.

How is that justified ?

[ahramin]

Gilles Mon Ami, I think the clause preventing seasonal Canadian captains was most likely insisted on by the union in order to prevent just the situation you have described in other posts: experienced captains bypassing the sunwing seniority list by taking seasonal positions, thus preventing temporary upgrades.

A year ago I ran into a friend who had been with Sunwing for almost three years and still hadn't been upgraded despite a shortage of Captains in the winter. Clauses like the one you've posted make sure that when someone is hired, seasonal or not, they go to the bottom of the seniority list like everyone else.

Prevent the illegal use of foreign pilots and this "discrimination" becomes a non event. It's only if you accept sunwing's claim that there is a shortage of qualified Canadian pilots that clauses like that seem to be a problem.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I do not agree.

Sunwing has 10 aircraft year round. They have 210 pilots on staff. They talk of hiring 40 Canadian seasonal pilots. That will bring their total pilot rosters to about 250 Canadian pilots.

They sent 4 aircraft to Europe on wet-leases. They plan on importing 4 wet-leases from Europe. So the reciprocal exchange is accomplished and equal.

Next winter, Sunwing plans on operating 37 aircraft, including the 4 wet-leases, which will already have their pilots.

This means Sunwing will need crews to Operate 33 Canadian registered aircraft.

At the very peak of the season, the least pilots they can have is 12 pilots per aircraft. So six Captains.

At 33 aircraft, they will need 198 Captains at the very least. I don't even count the passives, such as the chief pilot, the check pilots, the supervisors, etc who fly less. Its probably more like 210 Captains and over 400 pilots.

This means that every single one of the present full time FOs would need to be upgraded to Captain in the winter in order crew all aircraft. But many are not yet ready. So in come the seasonal pilots.

Sunwing does not need 40 seasonal pilots but more like 200. And of those 200, many need to be captains to fill in for full time Sunwing FOs who are not yet experienced enough to be in the left seat.

When these FOs become experienced enough to take the left seat, then they can be upgraded and bump the seasonal Captains out of a job, just like they would the Foreign Captains out of a job.

I fail to see why a distinction is made between Foreign Seasonal Pilots and Canadian Seasonal pilots.

They are both temporary, seasonal and contracted and are only hired if required.

Plus I do not think that these contract clauses that allow Foreign pilots to be seasonal Captains but that prohibit Canadian pilots to be seasonal Captains are in conformity with Canadian labour and discrimination laws. But we will very soon discover, won't we ?

[Rogerdodger2]

It's a good thing Gilles isn't a lawyer, his interpretation of these clauses is completely backwards. Claiming discrimination against Canadians is ridiculous. They exist to protect Canadian jobs. His SW bashing agenda has completely blinded him to the efforts and successes of the SW MEC. Yet another thread proving Gilles self serving motivation.

Think for yourselves...

[ahramin]

It's a good point Gilles, how can a Canadian CBA in effect specify that only non-Canadians can be seasonal Captains. Perhaps the union asked for a "no seasonal Captains" clause which the company agreed to provided it allowed the current importing of foreign Captains to continue. The result is a well intentioned (on the part of the union) "no seasonal Canadian Captains" clause.

The only way I could see this being overturned though is if someone qualified as a Captain took a seasonal F/O position, waited for seasonal foreign Captains to be brought in, and then took Sunwing and the Union to court for discrimination. An unlikely concatenation of events.

The way to solve this issue is to ensure that when Sunwing brings in TFWs, they aren't allowed to break or bypass the existing laws.

[Oxi]

It's a good thing Gilles isn't a lawyer, his interpretation of these clauses is completely backwards. Claiming discrimination against Canadians is ridiculous. They exist to protect Canadian jobs. His SW bashing agenda has completely blinded him to the efforts and successes of the SW MEC. Yet another thread proving Gilles self serving motivation.

Think for yourselves...

Great work rogerdodger, attack him for having backbone and backing up his arguments with source and facts.

[Krimson]

It's a good thing Gilles isn't a lawyer, his interpretation of these clauses is completely backwards. Claiming discrimination against Canadians is ridiculous. They exist to protect Canadian jobs. His SW bashing agenda has completely blinded him to the efforts and successes of the SW MEC. Yet another thread proving Gilles self serving motivation.

Think for yourselves...

Exactly. Interesting strategy being played out by Transat having Gilles fight competition, but it's the same broken record again and again. Work with the Sunwing group and accomplish a lot more, instead of ignoring everybody and attempt to cause as much PR problems as possible.

The real agenda is becoming easier to detect.

[ahramin]

Work with the Sunwing group and accomplish a lot more

It would appear that Gilles' efforts have led to far more changes in Sunwing's hiring practices than anything the Sunwing pilot group ever managed to accomplish. I would think the Sunwing pilots would be happy Gilles' help with their career progression. How many pilots were on the Sunwing seniority list before Gilles started pointing out to HRDC that Sunwing was lying on their LMO applications? How many are there on the list now? It has been stated here that the upgrade time is now 2 years, what was it 3 years ago?

[Krimson]

Work with the Sunwing group and accomplish a lot more

It would appear that Gilles' efforts have led to far more changes in Sunwing's hiring practices than anything the Sunwing pilot group ever managed to accomplish. I would think the Sunwing pilots would be happy Gilles' help with their career progression. How many pilots were on the Sunwing seniority list before Gilles started pointing out to HRDC that Sunwing was lying on their LMO applications? How many are there on the list now? It has been stated here that the upgrade time is now 2 years, what was it 3 years ago?

There have been cases of upgrades in 2 years. Not all upgrades are accomplished so quickly. Gilles' efforts are not the sole purpose for the changes. As has been pointed out several times, the transfer of pilots to/from Europe is dynamic. It is constantly changing and at times benefited Canadians, now is "benefiting" Europeans. Internal forces are attempting to balance this out, but it will continue to swing back and forth as demand/growth requires. The system in place actually has a positive effect on Canadian jobs, allowing more full time and seasonal positions to be available. To shrink the airline to the point where only Canadians are staffed year round would actually reduce the number of jobs available, and as a byproduct, be beneficial to competitors such as.......Air Transat. I don't think Gilles ever answered the question if he was being paid for his work against sunwi*ahem*foreign workers.

[FICU]

I'm sure I'm not the only one fed up with this obsessed guy and his drivel.
maybe the Avcanada censorship can get rid of it.

If you don't want to read what he posts... put him on your ignore list and self censor. Don't try to decide what's best for the rest of us.

[No Quarter]

What's FICU stand for?

[FICU]

What's FICU stand for?

Registration of a Learjet I flew many, many years ago.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Krimson, in case you did not read all that I posted here in the past, I posted statistics about the number of pilots Sunwing sent overseas, and the number of Foreign pilots Sunwing imported, first as Reciprocal, and as of 2011/2012 as TFW under the LMOs, and as of Feb 2012 as wet-lease pilots.

In 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 Sunwing sent three aircraft and crews to Europe
In 2012 and 2014 Sunwing sent 4 aircraft to Europe.
In 2013, Sunwing sent 7 aircraft to Europe.
Then one time, in 2010, Sunwing sent a dozen pilots that went to fly for European Operators.

That is a grand total of 30 aircraft that went over. At 15 pilots per aircraft, that comes out to 450 pilots. Add the 12 pilots that flew European aircraft, Sunwing sent a grand total of 462 pilots to Europe in 8 years.

In 2013/2014 Sunwing imported about 200 foreign pilots (5 B-737 wet-leases and over 120 TFW)
In 2012/2013, there were 6 wet leases (4 B-737 and 2 B-767) and 119 TFW. That comes out to about 210 foreign pilots.
In 2011/2012, there were 3 wet leases (1 B-737 and 2 B-737), about 180 Reciprocal pilots for about 225 foreign pilots.

In those 3 years alone, Sunwing imported about 635 foreign pilots, 162 pilots over what Sunwing sent over to Europe from 2007 to 2014......

But you also imported pilots in 2010/2011, in 2009/2010, in 2008/2009 and in 2007/2008 It was 30 to 50 range in those days, except in 2010/2011 when it began to increase with the arrival of the Thomson pilots­.

The exchanges were somewhat balanced from 2007 to 2009 and from the winter of 2011/2011, the winter after TUI purchased 49% of Sunwing (early 2010), it's always been in favor of the foreign pilots. And the only way its going to get better is by shutting down the foreign pilots in Canada, just like the Europeans are now doing with Canadian pilots in Europe.

[aerosexual]

I don't think Gilles ever answered the question if he was being paid for his work against sunwi*ahem*foreign workers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gilles brings up some valid points, the same points that Sunwing pilots also bring up with the company. The problem is that Gilles often goes off on a tangent and I feel that the nauseating attack on Sunwing is counter-productive. It is easy to turn the tables and come on here and attack Air Transat on a variety of issues, but this would not be productive nor professional.

While we may agree on some points, there is a lack of willingness to understand some of the arguments that Sunwing pilots bring up. Gilles has never answered the question on whether he is paid directly or indirectly (office day credit) by his employer to fight the good fight. This is not to detract from his valid points but it is a fair question.

Gilles' other thread asking pilots who have applied to Sunwing who were not hired to contact the minster responsible for the TFW program is spot on. This is a valid way for anybody involved who feels they have been unfairly impacted by the TFW program to make their case known.