Why is flying so expensive?

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Message
Author
Squaretail
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#51 Post by Squaretail » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:28 am

How do we raise this to being priority 20 out of 10, let alone in the top 10?
Users of the airport have to sell it as more than just a playground for a bunch of pricks. They have to have more than the "it brings some burger eaters". For example: many small airports in this country that I know of, since in this country are few and far between, actually have users from a wider area. For example, at my home field there are airplane owners who live up to an hour away from the airport which means the airport is bringing people from a wider area which make use of the town's business. Since many small town businesses rely on a local demand any transient customers is a bonus.

Small airports also have to welcome any kind of business that can work symbiotically with the airport. Car rental lots, Restaurants, B&B, stuff that will attract use of the airport. It should be said that there is a substantial demand for commercial operators to use airports in this country, but as one, I would say that we avoid places because they're unsuitable. No fuel, no parking, no approaches, no terminal. Not to mention unfriendly locals who too often treat public airports like they're private ones.

I would also say it should be stressed that as part of an area's infrastructure, the airport frequently doesn't require as much resources compared to the money it generates. The runway and taxiways are only an extra mile or two of asphalt out of how many miles a county or MD may be already removing snow from? The same could be said for the grass. It strikes me as crazy that an airport might be looking at purchasing its own maintenance equipment when there's a whole yard of stuff already being paid for by the taxpayer to maintain their stuff. But that's the kicker, you have to get the taxpayer to look at the place like it benefits them. Pull at their heart strings, an airport is also a part of the community's emergency infrastructure. They make ideal staging areas for any disaster relief, and increase a community's ability to access medical services. Engage your airport with the local emergency services, there's nothing they like more than to find excuses to do "training" if it involves airplanes or helicopters. The more people you can get who think of the airport positively, the better. Get the public out to the airport. Give tours to kids and schools, get some sort of events going.

Lastly I would say that our aviation community in general needs to find out where politicians stand on aviation. They do this in the U.S. where AOPA regularly publishes lists of airplane friendly and un-friendly people in power. Maybe COPA could start doing this if they can get out that wet paper bag that's holding them back now.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6174
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: Bicycle distance from CYYC.

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#52 Post by Beefitarian » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:31 am

trey kule wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:20 pm
Why is a hamburger eight bucks in so many places in YYC?

Eight Bucks!
Maybe if you want to eat at Chez Snooties


NO! Big Mac $5.99+ tax.
Not sure what that has to do with the cost of flying.
They are both too expensive. :smt070
---------- ADS -----------
  
Pardon me, may I fly your light single?

goldeneagle
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:28 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#53 Post by goldeneagle » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:29 am

Squaretail wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:28 am
I would also say it should be stressed that as part of an area's infrastructure
Many years ago, back in '79 I remember this question coming up in my home town. I attended a council meeting where one of the discussion subjects was to rationalize the expense of maintaining the airport. I was a young commercial pilot working at said airport, and had my ducks lined up for the meeting. When it was my turn to talk, stood up, showed the council members a dozen fuel receipts taken over the last 2 months. Each and every one of those was for putting fuel into a provincial government operated air ambulance citation. Proceeded to explain, that airport is a critical component of our health care system, the primary means of getting folks to a trauma center on occasion.

That basically ended the discussion, motion to maintain airport funding was voted on and passed unanimously.
---------- ADS -----------
  

trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4289
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#54 Post by trey kule » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:24 am

Unless it has changed....

Landing fee for GA aircraft at LAX....$0.00

.....just saying

Hawthorne...pretty much right under the approach path for LAX....$0.00
And no one is going to close their airport.. they are proud of it. Think of the Edmonton muni to see the difference in how local govts think of airports in Canada.

Canadian govts , at all levels are all about taxes ...and when they get to high, fees and surcharges. Because if you change the wording,, it is not a tax...

Aviation is viewed (incorrectly) as a place for the rich, and being rich in Canada is as unpolitically correct as being a white hetrosexual male.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Everyone is a genius in hindsight

Squaretail
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#55 Post by Squaretail » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:20 pm

Aviation is viewed (incorrectly) as a place for the rich,
Its not hard to get that impression sometimes though if you hang out at a lot of small airports. I wouldn't want tax dollars going to a place that I thought was only used by five pricks who wanted to be treated like princesses. I've been to flying club meetings where the guys present were trying to make a case that there was too much flying going on at "their" airport. The same kinds of guys are sometimes the ones who will make a case for more fees, at least fees for everyone else. One of the things that needs to be heavily countered I've found is some few, but loud voices, of these types. There's also the tendency to make champagne demands on a small airport with a beer budget, which can make the needs of the airport seem outrageous to the layman taxpayer.
---------- ADS -----------
  

C.W.E.
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#56 Post by C.W.E. » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:41 pm

Its not hard to get that impression sometimes though if you hang out at a lot of small airports. I wouldn't want tax dollars going to a place that I thought was only used by five pricks who wanted to be treated like princesses.
I must be lucky where I live because I have sat here and thought back through the years about the people at the airport and I could not think of even one that would fit the description of a prick.

What part of the country has a lot of small airports that is only used by pricks?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Squaretail
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#57 Post by Squaretail » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:15 am

small airports that is only used by pricks?
I didn't say there were any small airports that were only used by pricks, only that to the outsider it may seem that way by encounters with some of the users. For example I remember one fellow who showed up to protest a young Eagles day under the guise that it was a "safety hazard" when in actuality I think he was just pissed that he didn't have the airport to himself that day. Another example would be a fellow I knew who felt the need to bitch to the town about how he felt the runway wasn't in suitable condition for his use since apparently it wasn't brushed dry to his specifications. Now I can imagine that it might have been difficult for some of the constituent tax payers to feel sorry for this fellow since their residential streets certainly don't get that kind of attention.

See what I'm getting at?

I do find it somewhat of a surprise that you never run into anyone you didn't get along with at an airport...
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2513
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#58 Post by PilotDAR » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:45 am

I've been to flying club meetings where the guys present were trying to make a case that there was too much flying going on at "their" airport.
Well, those guys took the time to participate in the goings on of the airport, and that's something that many pilots and owners don't bother to do! Maybe they thought that the airport was "theirs" because they participated. The flying club where I learned to fly, owned the airport. So, yes, if things got too busy (which in my day, they certainly did from time to time), the airport would be closed to non members. 'Sounds fair to me, we were the members.

The aerodrome where I first kept my plane needed care, so I'd drive the tractor a few miles down the road to cut the grass, I'd drain the wet spots in the spring, and I helped to install the runway lights. I'd look after the place, and assure that all the planes were tied down and secure when a storm approached.

For the last 28 years, for my freedom and independence, I have owned my own aerodrome. I come and go as I please. I pay zero monthly tiedown fees for my planes! Though I had to buy the property, build the runway, build the hangar, bury in the lights and drainage, put up the windsock, cut the grass, and blow the snow. One day I'll do the math to see if my flying is expensive!
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6174
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: Bicycle distance from CYYC.

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#59 Post by Beefitarian » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:51 am

I have to admit though. It was too expensive back in the 1990s also and I just went and did it. It was worth every cent too.

So excellent point dar, never do the math.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Pardon me, may I fly your light single?

Kejidog
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:55 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#60 Post by Kejidog » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:55 am

Expensive?

Really? It has not been my experience at all, I am a new pilot in 2017. New plane owner in 2016 to train in.

Bought a solid older 172 took my PPL license training, and had an annual for well under $29,000 all in for 2017. I know losers who spent more on harleys and never put 250 hours on them and never left the tim hortons parking lot all year. Meanwhile i have visited 5 provinces with friends and family. And cheaper than a big overpowered bass boat.

It is a matter of priorities. Does someone need a diamond or a Cirrius with all the mod cons to train and locally fly.

Maybe in the age of high consumer debt, over priced mortgages and twice yearly family trips to the sunny south it is that the average person has no capacity to explore have a hobby like aviation because they are broke keeping up appearances. 30 years ago how many high end cars did you see parked outside of a slummy apartment builings?

But guess what. It has been an awesome experience for me my two kids and even my wife. And for the price of admission I would not trade it for anything.

I know maybe tomorrow I may have an expensive repair bill or replacement cost dropped on me but so far i am loving it
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2513
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#61 Post by PilotDAR » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:00 am

Well said Kegidog!

And, after all that fun in your 172, it's still yours to sell, perhaps for more than you paid for it. I thought that when I bought my 150 in 1987, maybe I'll sell it and buy up. I still own it, and two other planes too!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Kejidog
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:55 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#62 Post by Kejidog » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:09 am

Yes. It was my goal to fly so fly i am doing.

I am sick of the guy in the $70,000 pickup truck grocery hauler with the $30,000 side by side sitting in it telling me i am some sort of 1% er.

But i live in a modest house drive a 8 year old car and spend my cash wisely. I have bought 4 sets of headsets a gps and a lot of survival gear second hand off kijiji.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#63 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:16 am

Kejidog wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:55 am
Expensive?



Bought a solid older 172 took my PPL license training, and had an annual for well under $29,000 all in for 2017. I know losers who spent more on harleys and never put 250 hours on them and never left the tim hortons parking lot all year. Meanwhile i have visited 5 provinces with friends and family. And cheaper than a big overpowered bass boat.

It is a matter of priorities. Does someone need a diamond or a Cirrius with all the mod cons to train and locally fly.

Maybe in the age of high consumer debt, over priced mortgages and twice yearly family trips to the sunny south it is that the average person has no capacity to explore have a hobby like aviation because they are broke keeping up appearances. 30 years ago how many high end cars did you see parked outside of a slummy apartment builings?

But guess what. It has been an awesome experience for me my two kids and even my wife. And for the price of admission I would not trade it for anything.
Couldn't agree more.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
JasonE
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#64 Post by JasonE » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:30 pm

Ditto.

My wife and I continue to drive older cars (2004 & 2010), while we enjoy the privilege of flying around Canada. Bought and trained in my own plane (partnership) & saved a bundle on rental during my PPL training. It's not really that expensive in the grand scheme of things these days. I'd much rather go flying in my 50+ year old plane than buy a new car (or Harley) any day!
---------- ADS -----------
  
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright

digits_
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#65 Post by digits_ » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:38 pm

JasonE wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:30 pm
Ditto.

My wife and I continue to drive older cars (2004 & 2010), while we enjoy the privilege of flying around Canada. Bought and trained in my own plane (partnership) & saved a bundle on rental during my PPL training. It's not really that expensive in the grand scheme of things these days. I'd much rather go flying in my 50+ year old plane than buy a new car (or Harley) any day!
While all those things are great and a great way to get into flying, it is impossible for every pilot to do this, as you'd run out of "cheap" 50 year old planes pretty quickly. The easiest way to compare the cost of flying, would be to compare the rental rates, as others have done before. There does seems to be a consensus that the cost of flying is increasing.

If you look at the prices of new airplanes, it is pretty expensive to get one of those, even if you drive old cars and live in small houses.

A cheaper alternative would be ultra lights, although some of those contraptions are not always the safest.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Broken Slinky
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:47 am

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#66 Post by Broken Slinky » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:13 am

trey kule wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:24 am
Unless it has changed....

Landing fee for GA aircraft at LAX....$0.00

.....just saying
That's true. The business model for US airports is a completely different monster than here in Canada. In the US, they feel they are a necessity for economic development and required infrastructure. Not sure if the Feds are still funding them at the same rate but at one time they were providing 90% of the monies to develop and upgrade airports. The community or developer just had to come up with 10% of the capital. When you don't have the capital expenses to recover, you can afford to charge lower fees, etc...

https://www.ustravel.org/sites/default/ ... _0_1_0.pdf
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
square
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 954
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:36 pm

Re: Why is flying so expensive?

#67 Post by square » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:58 am

Just do your own maintenance -- but don't @#$! it up
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”