Mounties Air Service fudging the numbers

[pelmet]

Didn't the RCMP air division get in trouble a few years back for repeatedly using a particular airport that was the desired destination as a filed alternate and always proceeding to their alternate?

[single_swine_herder]

If you assume they used the standard weights establushed by TC, they didn't lie or fudge anything. Is it the pilot's fault that the standard weights need to be revised? That's the problem with this discussion. People are hanging the pilots based on allegations that have not been proven.

But lack of proof doesn't get in Cat Driver's way when he sees a chance to bash the regulator. But flying under a bridge...that's OK.

"Standard weights" hasn't been acceptable for quite some time.

In response to the Beech 1900 accident at Charlotte, a great deal of research was done into current weights and that data is now called "Segmented Weights."

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... -1787.html

[goingmach_1]

Its the pilot in command responsibility to ensure that maximum weight of the aircraft is not exceeded for take-off. Also that the weight and balance of the aircraft is within its operating range for take-off, flight, and landing. Everyone knows that.

What I do know about that Piaggio is that its very limited in what it can carry. I mean like one passenger and full fuel and its at the maximum. And not even that if the pilots are more than average size.

Why they bought that machine is beyond me. I smell a kick back on that sale and purchase.

The Piaggio might be all sexy with its speed, but it is a lousy airplane in all its operating range for weight. The King Air 350 blows it out of the water with payload vs fuel. Just saying.

My point is, I'm guessing, the boys made the numbers work so they don't have to stop in Peterborough for gas when they are flying 6 pax.'s from Ottawa to Toronto. My guess is this machine is the culprit.

[LousyFisherman]

For those of you who think it is acceptable for the RCMP to falsify legal documents, please don't complain when they do it to support the filing of criminal charges against you.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/11/28/wi ... ehind-bars Leighton Hay can advise you on what will happen.

Just sayin'
LF

[fish4life]

Was it the pilatus or piaggio behind this ?

[rigpiggy]

Reading the report it was only the ottawa air section that was audited.It seems to point almost exclusively at the Piaggio. This is almost exclusively used for executive movements, could this have been why they got rid of it.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The newspaper reports that a max weight of "10,450 lbs" was exceeded. That is the MGTOW of a PC 12

[CID]

PC-12/45 is 4500kg
PC-12/47 is 4700kg

[Cat Driver]

People are hanging the pilots based on allegations that have not been proven.

But lack of proof doesn't get in Cat Driver's way when he sees a chance to bash the regulator.

What is this CID?

The investigation found that:

The OAS flew aircraft that were overweight on several occasions in 2012 - see technical information on the next page. In some instances, AJL entries were above the regulated weight capacity, whereas in others, entries pertaining to the weight of the passengers, fuel and/or baggage were unrealistic.

A pilot acknowledged that he himself had worked backwards to make the numbers work on paper. Two other witnesses alleged that almost all pilots did so, a statement which was supported by a subject-matter expert who also completed a review of AJLs completed by members of the ASB.

[GyvAir]

Reading the report it was only the ottawa air section that was audited.It seems to point almost exclusively at the Piaggio. This is almost exclusively used for executive movements, could this have been why they got rid of it.

Someone already posted the link to the actual report on the previous page, but here it is again:
http://www.psic.gc.ca/eng/publications/ ... ted-police

Under the technical information, they refer to 10 log entries pertaining to the Pilatus and 2 log entries pertaining to the Piaggio. Very little information about the specifics of the trips.

[rigpiggy]

I stand corrected, I glossed over, and didn't pick up the nuances

[GyvAir]

Wasn't intending to direct my post at yours in particular, rigpiggy. Actually, your post was one of the few in the thread that indicated you had obtained your information from the report directly, rather than snippets that made their way through the strange filter that we call the news media.

[Liquid Charlie]

At the end of the day -- who really cares -- I certainly don't - we have all been in the same situation and I still maintain operators (in the small airplane world) continually assign missions to aircraft they are not designed to do and manufacturers sell aircraft that might have 9 seats in them but fill the seats and you can't go anywhere -- I don't think the pilots are to blame here -- the nay sayers would argue with that but this sh1t has been going on since aviation started in Canada -- damn I flew for several years on floats and to this day don't know the max gross weight of the aircraft I flew -- except for maybe the Beaver since it was plastered on the panel but standard loads prevailed so the culture runs very deep and obviously wide spread so maybe the ever popular training contract should have a clause added -- "if company policy is to "play loose" with the CARS contract is null and void -- what a concept --

[Prairie Chicken]

Although these offences and the charges are well defined, and the pilots who broke the law should be charged, the offences are fairly minor. You could argue that they could have caused an accident but based on the information, that's unlikely in my opinion.

TC disagrees strongly. Making a false representation is contrary to the Aeronautics Act, Sec. 7.3 and is one of the most serious offences under the Act in that it may be proceeded with either by way of indictment or summary conviction. This is about as serious as it gets under aviation regulations. Also, consider the owner or operator of the a/c may be charged in addition to the pilot. It will be very interesting to see what TC's investigation comes up with. I wonder who the unlucky sod in OW is who will get tasked with this investigation?

7.3 (1) No person shall
...
(c) make or cause to be made any false entry in a record required under this Part to be kept with intent to mislead or wilfully omit to make any entry in any such record;

[Cat Driver]

Finally someone has put this in its true context.

TC disagrees strongly. Making a false representation is contrary to the Aeronautics Act, Sec. 7.3 and is one of the most serious offences under the Act in that it may be proceeded with either by way of indictment or summary conviction. This is about as serious as it gets under aviation regulations.

The law does not allow for degrees of violation of a given law, the falsifying of W&B is an offense and if done by someone in a position of trust and power the charge should be under indictment in my opinion.

[B208]

I believe that it is worth pointing out that the RCMP pilots are in fact civilians. The people making false entries were most likely not members of the RCMP.
Further, there seems to be a great deal of support for charging the pilots that flew overweight; That will not act as much of a deterrent. If the goal is to prevent recurrence of unsafe operations, then charge the operator and make them hurt. The impetus to cut safety corners almost always comes from the person making the profit. If you make unsafe actions unprofitable unsafe actions will cease. Maybe that is something that our college of pilots should get on.

[DonutHole]

The pilots would be civilian members

[plhought]

Is there no members working within the Air Division any more? Just curious.