D O E :
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: D O E :
They were referring to an earlier CAR's reference by someone else I believe.
Re: D O E :
Equal pay for equal work...as far as I can tell, everyone's doing essentially the same thing as when they got their first job-pushing and pulling various levers, trying not to screw up or forget anything important.
So ya. By all means, pay everyone the same amount. Starting wage for a C180 driver or a brand new metro FO should be good enough for the guy getting hired with 20 000hrs. He s not going to claim to be worth more than the next guy. That would be against the rules.
So ya. By all means, pay everyone the same amount. Starting wage for a C180 driver or a brand new metro FO should be good enough for the guy getting hired with 20 000hrs. He s not going to claim to be worth more than the next guy. That would be against the rules.
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Cat Driver
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Re: D O E :
So ya. By all means, pay everyone the same amount. Starting wage for a C180 driver or a brand new metro FO should be good enough for the guy getting hired with 20 000hrs. He s not going to claim to be worth more than the next guy. That would be against the rules.
When a pilot reaches 20,000 hours they would not be applying at any company that pays slave rate wages, unless they have a history of only being worth slave rate wages.
Hopefully by that point in your career you would be contracting your services out at a premium rate.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: D O E :
Priceless! Cat has effectively nullified 2 pages of crap by pulling a 180. So pay SHOULD depend on experience. Wow.Hopefully by that point in your career you would be contracting your services out at a premium rate.
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iflyforpie
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Re: D O E :
So the ability to provide value for your services justifies the paying of absolute crap to those who only meet the minimum requirements?
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: D O E :
You never have an opinion of your own, just an opinion on someone else's opinion?CID wrote:Priceless! Cat has effectively nullified 2 pages of crap by pulling a 180. So pay SHOULD depend on experience. Wow.Hopefully by that point in your career you would be contracting your services out at a premium rate.
Illya
Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: D O E :
A last thought about shit wages. If you don't want to work for shit wages, dont. Pretty simple. Even for pilots.
Illya
Illya
Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then.
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Masters Off
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Re: D O E :
In the reverse of today, we wouldn't see a starting pilot at any major airline starting in the 30s and the ending up and above 200,000 for guys who could be sitting just a few feet away on the same flight deck.
With valid points above, less maintenance, more efficiency is worth more, saves the company money, but to a point. However to what Cat is mentioning, we're looking at upwards of 600% difference from beginning of your career at a company (say West Jet, Air Canada) to the end. I think having experience is great, but when you split things over 100, 1000, even 3200 pilots like Air Canada has, is there that much of a discrepancy in experience to warrant that much of a change in wage?
Further, your wage is now based on your birth. Born in the baby boom? Before? After? Could be big differences in your total earnings. Hell, you might never even get a chance to have the job. Similarly, we all know someone who's had it handed to them when they're less than ready to accept the position. So we walk in at different times to potentially the same job and because of negotiations, age, experience and typically a seniority number, your life and earnings are severely different from the next guy.
I can justify paying less for someone who has yet to learn competency on the job. Don't ask me to define it, but don't tell me it takes 35 years at Air Canada, if I get the job, to ever see the pay they get today. I fly at an airline, IFR, in the same conditions to the same airports, don't pretend like I don't do similar work. Should I take the pay cut to work for them under their justifications?
Can anyone tell me how someone comes to the calculation of just how much experience means how much wage difference? I'd like to know.
With valid points above, less maintenance, more efficiency is worth more, saves the company money, but to a point. However to what Cat is mentioning, we're looking at upwards of 600% difference from beginning of your career at a company (say West Jet, Air Canada) to the end. I think having experience is great, but when you split things over 100, 1000, even 3200 pilots like Air Canada has, is there that much of a discrepancy in experience to warrant that much of a change in wage?
Further, your wage is now based on your birth. Born in the baby boom? Before? After? Could be big differences in your total earnings. Hell, you might never even get a chance to have the job. Similarly, we all know someone who's had it handed to them when they're less than ready to accept the position. So we walk in at different times to potentially the same job and because of negotiations, age, experience and typically a seniority number, your life and earnings are severely different from the next guy.
I can justify paying less for someone who has yet to learn competency on the job. Don't ask me to define it, but don't tell me it takes 35 years at Air Canada, if I get the job, to ever see the pay they get today. I fly at an airline, IFR, in the same conditions to the same airports, don't pretend like I don't do similar work. Should I take the pay cut to work for them under their justifications?
Can anyone tell me how someone comes to the calculation of just how much experience means how much wage difference? I'd like to know.
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Cat Driver
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Re: D O E :
See...
...there are a lot of people here who get it like Masters off does.
My personal opinion is flying attracts people who want to fly at almost any cost, it is an emotional need rather than a rational evaluation of the subject.
I don't want you guys and gals thinking I was any different because when I was young I was willing to do most anything to fly an airplane.
Fortunately I got a good start and figured out the high paying jobs were those that took a specialized kind of flying skills to get the job, so I focused on those areas and managed to work my way through the system with relatively good pay.
...there are a lot of people here who get it like Masters off does.
My personal opinion is flying attracts people who want to fly at almost any cost, it is an emotional need rather than a rational evaluation of the subject.
I don't want you guys and gals thinking I was any different because when I was young I was willing to do most anything to fly an airplane.
Fortunately I got a good start and figured out the high paying jobs were those that took a specialized kind of flying skills to get the job, so I focused on those areas and managed to work my way through the system with relatively good pay.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
