C208 wrote:Is there anyway that this move by said company could be involved with the Fort Hills project start up?
I wouldn't be surprised if Suncors flight dept cant't keep up with both Fort Hills and Firebag. Maybe they will reach out to WS, 5T, WR, etc... for the time being. Fort Hills is starting to ramp up and get serious.
FICU wrote:With 5T being a private company you sure know a lot about their financial health. 5T has 3 Oil companies under contract and other upcoming charter obligations. BTW the codeshare agreement is working as intended so far.
Any more insight?
The only insight I can provide is one of the three companies they fly for is cutting their charters in half. But that was to be expected as it was in the contract, its not a surprise. Agreed though, its a private company. We won't know how "bad" things could be until they pull a JetsGo.
CID wrote:The oil companies in Canada index their prices to OPEC market prices. They have no obligation to OPEC since we aren't a member state but using OPEC prices has allowed Canadian oil companies to gouge us to the extreme and all they have done is shrug and say they have no control over the market price. Now that OPEC has chosen to tank their prices Canadian oil companies are trying to move away from OPEC prices. Sorry assholes but you can't have it both ways. The government could impose some framework to control their gouging but not with Harper in power.
And where is all that money that made oil executives rich? Probably the same place the Heritage Fund is. Lining the pockets of executives and greasy politicians.
Oil, is traded on the open market exactly like every other commodity from Gold to Sugar.
plhought wrote:Well this sucks. I think it's kind of greasy for Encore to go after this flying when there's other operators more than equipped to handle it.
Alas; money talks, and no doubt Encore gave 'em a competitive rate I suppose.
Business is business. If there's money there, why shouldn't they go after it? I'm sure if there was a tender, then everyone bid on it.
So far, all I am reading here is rumour. If it's true, it is unfortunate for those who work at Suncor, I hate to see anyone out of work but... if it's going to be, then it's a shark style feeding frenzy to get that work.
If you are always afraid of the what-ifs in the industry or more specifically In Your company, then you are going to lead pretty angry stressful life. There are simply way too many variables to concern yourself with.
My feeling (an educated guess) is that they are trying to find efficiencies in their own system and there is no better way than a little doom and gloom and fear mongering. I also don't believe that the entire flight department would shut down. They have executive transport that is way too valuable to the upper management to pawn off to the lowest bidder. I suspect the flight department budget will get slashed and the people told to figure how to make it work on the new budget. Concessions and efficiencies.
What I have been hearing is that the Suncor flt dept is not shutting down. Suncor appears to be consolidating all of their subcharter work with one company...namely WestJet. All of the smaller carriers they have been using will now be replaced with one carrier.
Actually Canadian oil companies get a lower oil price than most other places due to bottle necks in getting it out, typically oil coming out of western Canada is $5-10 under the widely traded and more we'll know WTI (western Texas intermediate) so before you go spouting your mouth off look into it a bit. The only way to get more money for the oil is to build refineries in Canada so we don't have to get it out and can help with situations like where we are in now where our oil has to make its way down to the gulf coast to get refined and then sent back up to Canada as gas.
I'm speaking of domestic prices. I understand that the problem is global but what do I care if Canadian oil companies gouge other countries?
With respect to refineries, Canada had MANY refineries in the past but after the FTA was passed, investors concentrated their processing funding in the US where the larger markets are and their raw material funding to Canada where many of the raw materials are concentrated. That applies to other raw/material/processed goods situations like meat. We used to have many meat processing plants in Canada but most of that is gone. Now we are at the mercy of the US and other countries to process our commodities.
Now back to the local fuel pump. The distributors sell gasoline and fuel oils for a price that is partly indexed to OPEC prices (for the crude) and the oil companies have justified it by saying that it's the market price. Many commodities in Canada are at least somewhat normalized through marketing boards or other means but no such stabilization exists for oil in the domestic market. No, I'm not a communist I just have a problem with being gouged. I don't suggest a "Venezuela" solution where citizens there pay pennies per gallon but why do I pay so much for a commodity that our country produces so readily and from an industry that is so highly subsidized?
Actually Canadian oil companies get a lower oil price than most other places due to bottle necks in getting it out, typically oil coming out of western Canada is $5-10 under the widely traded and more we'll know WTI (western Texas intermediate) so before you go spouting your mouth off look into it a bit. The only way to get more money for the oil is to build refineries in Canada so we don't have to get it out and can help with situations like where we are in now where our oil has to make its way down to the gulf coast to get refined and then sent back up to Canada as gas.
I'm speaking of domestic prices. I understand that the problem is global but what do I care if Canadian oil companies gouge other countries?
With respect to refineries, Canada had MANY refineries in the past but after the FTA was passed, investors concentrated their processing funding in the US where the larger markets are and their raw material funding to Canada where many of the raw materials are concentrated. That applies to other raw/material/processed goods situations like meat. We used to have many meat processing plants in Canada but most of that is gone. Now we are at the mercy of the US and other countries to process our commodities.
Now back to the local fuel pump. The distributors sell gasoline and fuel oils for a price that is partly indexed to OPEC prices (for the crude) and the oil companies have justified it by saying that it's the market price. Many commodities in Canada are at least somewhat normalized through marketing boards or other means but no such stabilization exists for oil in the domestic market. No, I'm not a communist I just have a problem with being gouged. I don't suggest a "Venezuela" solution where citizens there pay pennies per gallon but why do I pay so much for a commodity that our country produces so readily and from an industry that is so highly subsidized?
Don't mistake gasoline for crude. Unless you're pumping crude into your car Canada produces very little. Price of oil has only a little to do with the price of gas.
Don't mistake gasoline for crude. Unless you're pumping crude into your car Canada produces very little. Price of oil has only a little to do with the price of gas.
Crude is the largest component in gasoline prices. Saying that it isn't is like saying the price of chicken has very little bearing on the cost of fried chicken.
Don't mistake gasoline for crude. Unless you're pumping crude into your car Canada produces very little. Price of oil has only a little to do with the price of gas.
Crude is the largest component in gasoline prices. Saying that it isn't is like saying the price of chicken has very little bearing on the cost of fried chicken.
Not quite. Crude is the main component but doesn't take anything else into account such as refinery maintenance, supply disruptions, gasoline demand, and not to mention refiners are often not the same companies that pump crude and they don't pass on the full savings to consumers. There is a reason refiners stock prices are at all time highs. You can't just assume because crude prices are halved that gasoline prices should automatically be halved as well.
A better analogy would be the price of clothing isn't low when cotton prices are cheap.
privateer wrote:You can't really beat WestJet's cost structure. It's really a drop in the bucket as far as costs go.
Maybe, but what I think you mean is that you (suncore) can't beat Encore's pay/cost structure. It's REALLY a drop in the bucket as far as costs/pay go.
WJ's cost structure is good too, but it's the WS wage carrot dangle that allows Encore's cost structure to be ridiculously competitive.
Don't mistake gasoline for crude. Unless you're pumping crude into your car Canada produces very little. Price of oil has only a little to do with the price of gas.
Crude is the largest component in gasoline prices. Saying that it isn't is like saying the price of chicken has very little bearing on the cost of fried chicken.
Not quite. Crude is the main component but doesn't take anything else into account such as refinery maintenance, supply disruptions, gasoline demand, and not to mention refiners are often not the same companies that pump crude and they don't pass on the full savings to consumers. There is a reason refiners stock prices are at all time highs. You can't just assume because crude prices are halved that gasoline prices should automatically be halved as well.
A better analogy would be the price of clothing isn't low when cotton prices are cheap.
Exactly. Right now the price of gas, and other refined products made from crude, are going to be higher as this is shutdown season for refiners. Maintenance turn arounds.
Actually, theres more companies that find and refine than stand alone, downstream only, refining companies. Companies like Imperial Oil, Shell, BP, Suncor etc... are integrated oil companies, meaning they have both upstream and downstream businesses so they both find it, and then refine it. Find the crude that is. These companies, or any company that has a refinery right now, has a license to print money due to the low cost of crude. Its a weird industry because when crude prices are high, upstream is making money and downstream makes nothing, and when crudes low, downstream makes all and upstream gets the shaft.
Not quite. Crude is the main component but doesn't take anything else into account such as refinery maintenance, supply disruptions, gasoline demand, and not to mention refiners are often not the same companies that pump crude and they don't pass on the full savings to consumers. There is a reason refiners stock prices are at all time highs. You can't just assume because crude prices are halved that gasoline prices should automatically be halved as well.
A better analogy would be the price of clothing isn't low when cotton prices are cheap.
Apparently in the Suncor town hall meeting it was said that WJ is now just another approved charter operator to take over the extra flying for Suncor. As for what this means in the sense of shutting down Suncor flt department, I don't know.
