Single or Twin?

[gwagen]

I plan to make frequent trips from Oshawa to near Rainy River. 20 round trips per year approx.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable in a single if I took the most direct route. It would mean flying over a lot of water and very unfriendly terrain should a failure occur and a forced approach take place.

In a twin I would feel comfortable, but costs are exponentially greater, not out of reach but why spend more than necessary.

So the alternative is head further west, then overfly the US, would add roughly 100nm to the trip, which is not insignificant. But would nearly eliminate crossing any of the Great Lakes and farm fields instead of rocks and trees.

I'm not really familiar with flying in the US, I know overflying is not a big deal, but in the single I'd probably have to stop for fuel in the US, can that be done without going through customs?

Not that is a problem but less time and hassle would be nice.

Am I being too cautious?

I'd been keen to have any opinions or other options!

Thanks!

[photofly]

No, you absolutely cannot stop in the US without customs, eAPIS declarations and all that. And you will have to clear Canadian customs on the second leg to re-enter Canada.

Direct is 700nm, the northern overland route is 770nm.

There are plenty of places even on a "benign" route that a forced approach will be hazardous; if you're nervous about that a twin is the answer. If you can get some de-icing gear then your launch reliability will improve a lot, too.

Also be aware of the usual "twin" issues: if you do get into difficulties the outcome is usually a lot worse than putting a piston single down.

[C-GKNT]

The other thing to consider is that in the current "backwards" market, although the operating costs of a twin are generally higher, the acquisition cost can be lower than getting into a single.

Glenn

[digits_]

If safety is a concern, make sure you actually try out the single engine performance of your twin. If you have a habit of loading your airplanes over MTOW, you might be in for a nasty surprise. Depending on type and altitude, you might not even be able to fly level at MTOW.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Going to assume you're a PPL from your post.
If so, I wouldn't touch a twin with a stick. An "affordable" twin is a nasty beast for all but the best trained.....even then, an engine failure can bite you in the ass.
Add to this, insurance and maintenance, and I'd stay with a single.
Just plan your routes and pick your weather window.
Good luck.
Illya

[Rookie50]

I can tell you in any light aircraft that route will present a lot of weather challenges easily half the year, especially the Canadian route.

Take it slow. If inexperienced and / or crappy weather I would favour the US route without question. 100 NM is nothing to add for safety.

Just my 0.02

[photofly]

337 skymaster?

[Bede]

337 skymaster?

Dear God, no.

I have an acquaintance who has a C182RG for doing a similar trip across Ontario. He "upgraded" to a P337. The plane has had nothing but problems and has cost 10's of thousands of dollars. And he bought a beautiful, well-maintained one.

Here are the problems you will run into: will you go IFR or VFR? VFR is almost out of the question for such a long flight. You can't really .. run that long of a flight.

What is your experience? If you don't have much time, you may be safer hiring a pilot if that's in the cards. You can probably meet someone at a local flying club who can be your instructor/safety pilot for your trips.

Because of icing issues, you will need a plane with de-ice capabilities. If you're going SE I'd look at a newer Mooney or Malibu. A twin will be much more expensive (probably more than double). I'd look at a newer C310 or C335.

Regardless of what you get, buy a well-maintained, nice late model. It will save you in the long run.

[Rookie50]

Just to add to Bede's comment -- people I know with TKS anti ice (which is all you can get on most singles) around here still do not fly into forecast icing up there (which is real common along Superior until it freezes ) I wouldn't, either.

[esp803]

My experience with TKS has been rather positive, that being said there is a major draw back... One you're out, you're out. I don't know the consumption rate on a small single, but in a caravan on high it's less than 30 minutes. It's great for taking off and climbing through a layer and then turning back on for approach, but not for a long flight in icing.

I'd be looking for a Malibu and pick your days. Above all if your feel uncomfortable turn around. Don't push things. Especially in the shoulder seasons.

[Rookie50]

My experience with TKS has been rather positive, that being said there is a major draw back... One you're out, you're out. I don't know the consumption rate on a small single, but in a caravan on high it's less than 30 minutes. It's great for taking off and climbing through a layer and then turning back on for approach, but not for a long flight in icing.

I'd be looking for a Malibu and pick your days. Above all if your feel uncomfortable turn around. Don't push things. Especially in the shoulder seasons.

30 minutes. Wow that is fairly quick. Good to know as sometimes I do wish I had it for cloudy layered days without forecast icing conditions.

Ps thought caravans had boots or can they be both ways?

Will TKS keep up with "moderate" icing? I know eg Cirrus are Fiki but I'm wary of that claim with TKS ---

[DSoup]

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable in a single if I took the most direct route. It would mean flying over a lot of water and very unfriendly terrain should a failure occur and a forced approach take place.

Life jacket, immersion suit and Spot Tracker (clipped to you) and you'd be good to go!

[l_reason]

I would have a really close look at a modern light twin, the DA42 would fit the bill. Fantastic avionics package, fast enough to get some decent MPG and now that there are some with IO-360's you have some single engine performance.

I've never flown a Diamond aircraft but on the surface it looks like a nice little bird for *only* 500k

[photofly]

For that money, silver eagle 210

[Rookie50]

For that money, silver eagle 210

Kinda like this video.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3Zt7tq9NM

[Strega]

Buy a twin commanche, with good, recent engines, and decent avionics. (slaved compass, and garmin 430)

you wont be unhappy... or ever getting out on anything but pavement.

[CpnCrunch]

I would have a really close look at a modern light twin, the DA42 would fit the bill. Fantastic avionics package, fast enough to get some decent MPG and now that there are some with IO-360's you have some single engine performance.

I've never flown a Diamond aircraft but on the surface it looks like a nice little bird for *only* 500k

According to controller.com, DA42 is $900k new. If you have that cash you could probably stretch to $1M for a new Seneca, which would be more roomy.

[trey kule]

It's great for taking off and climbing through a layer and then turning back on for approach, but not for a long flight in icing

Why in the world would you fly a long flight in icing in any plane in general, and a caravan in particular.

TKS only deals with ice, not poor judgement.....just saying.

As to the thread itself, perhaps the OP can give us an idea of their experience level..i think that might make a difference. As Illya mentioed, performance on smaller twins can be really marginal.IIRC, on the 337, raising the gear after an engine failure on takeoff will cause a negative climb rate while it is retracting..
No such thing as a "cheap twin". The labour and parts are priced in todays dollars, and the plane will need lots of it if it is older no matter how well it was maintained.

[Illya Kuryakin]

So we have some guy ask a simple question. Single or twin.
While I was thinking 172 or Aztec, some of you have him spending upwards of a million bucks, wearing a survival suit, flying a half million dollar TKS equipped Mooney. Others speak 337 (BARF). Nobody knows if he has 600 or 6000 hours, or in what?
IF I were to fly this mission, year round, on a strict schedule, my bird of choice would be a King Air 90! If you have no commitments, or time constraints, you could do it in a 150! Hell, I flew a 150 to and around the Bahamas for a month.
Realistically though, buy a nice new Audi/BMW, and drive! One night over each way.....because, unless you can swing a VERY sophisticated twin, that'll be what you'll end up doing anyway.
It's smarter to charter...
Or.......you know the old saying.."if it floats, flys or, well, you know...RENT IT!"
Illya

[PROC_HDG]

With regards to TKS vs other de/anti-ice solutions: I have flown twins with boots that were certified FIKI, and dealt with ice in a shockingly poor fashion compared to new singles with FIKI and non-FIKI TKS installations. Compared to boots on a so called 'affordable twin', you are better off with a new single that has TKS, imo.

PROC_HDG