Comm failure IFR

[snakesonaplane]

Question. You're enroute to an airport and around the halfway point, you experience a comm failure. You proceed to your destination (the clearance limit), arrived there you would hold at the IF for the approach you intend to shoot until your expected arrival time.

Now here's the question. Do you:
A) hold at the IF until the filed arrival time, and then shoot the approach? Or

B) you leave the IF 5 minutes or so early so that you land at the destination airport at your filed arrival time?

[Jimmybuffet]

I believe you commence it at your ETA, not 5 mins prior....

[Rockie]

Question. You're enroute to an airport and around the halfway point, you experience a comm failure. You proceed to your destination (the clearance limit), arrived there you would hold at the IF for the approach you intend to shoot until your expected arrival time.

Now here's the question. Do you:
A) hold at the IF until filed arrival time, and then shoot the approach? Or

B) you leave the IF 5 minutes or so early so that you land at the destination airport at your filed arrival time?

For your scenario where (ii) and (iii) do not apply, nor have you filed an RNAV STAR the answer is "A".

(c) Descent for Approach

Maintain enroute altitude to the navigation facility or the approach fix to be used for the
instrument approach procedure selected and commence an appropriate descent
procedure at whichever of the following times is the most recent:

(i) the expected time of arrival (ETA as calculated from take-off time plus the filed or
amended (with ATC) estimated time enroute);

(ii) the estimated time of arrival last notified to and acknowledged by ATC; or

(iii) the expected approach time (EAT) last received and acknowledged

[culver10]

Why would you not call the fine folks at Nav Canada on your cell phone if your comm failed??

[photofly]

ETE in your flight plan doesn't include the estimated duration of an approach.

[Rockie]

Ours do. It's part and parcel of calculating the required fuel. But it's certainly possible to file to the VOR serving the airport and that's it, but then you'll still have to add the gas required for the approach. You could also just pass to ATC your ETA for the IAF and you'll be covered that way too. Lots of ways to skin that cat.

You could also argue ATC sees you even though they can't talk to you, and instead of holding at FL200 until your ETA they'd prefer you squawk 7600 to let them know, then descend and land as normal on the most sensible runway rather than chew up all that airspace for so long. Those comm fail procedures are archaic.

[photofly]

Ok. so ICAO doc 4444 says "Destination aerodrome and total estimated elapsed time"; don't know why I imagined it was time until commencing approach.

The lost comms procedures make a lot more sense in non-radar airspace.

[goingnowherefast]

Why would you not call the fine folks at Nav Canada on your cell phone if your comm failed??

I can bluetooth my phone to my headset. Found communication again.

I've heard controllers say they would rather you to squack 7600 and just fly a normal descent and approach. Much more predictable and easier for them to accommodate. That's assuming it's a RADAR environment though.

[springlocked]

I think the word archaic has come up. Com failures in this generation has almost gone to the way of the dodo. In this generation if you have a total com failure that likely is the least of your worries because a bigger problem has taken out your radios - all of them -- Your mobile phone might become your only source of nav, com and light. Keep your batteries charged. I know, never say never but the chances of a total com failure are remote and have become for the most part a training exercise so simple answer. Know the regs and also list to the departure ATIS

[lownslow]

I wonder what catastrophe would wipe out your Comms (all of em) but leave your IFR Nav capability intact?

[goingnowherefast]

Say a baggage cart or anything rolls under a plane and knocks both comm antennas when you are at an uncontrolled airport. If you don't see the damage, you won't find out until you try to talk to somebody, likely center.

Situation requires a lot of what-ifs. Despite being highly unlikely, it is "plausible" (as Myth Busters put it).

*edited type-o

[CpnCrunch]

Ok. so ICAO doc 4444 says "Destination aerodrome and total estimated elapsed time"; don't know why I imagined it was time until commencing approach.

IIRC the elapsed time doesn't include the time for any training approaches/holds, so perhaps that is what you were thinking of.