Atawapiskat

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Cat Driver
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Cat Driver » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:21 pm

There may be some improvement if " all " of the employees of Indian Affairs and Northern Development were to be moved out of Ottawa and every employee's office were on a reserve.

The Government employees could choose their reserve based on seniority in the system.

P.S. :

I know the name has been changed over the years but the act remains the same with the same drones living off the backs of the Natives.

Three things broke the backs of natives....and keeps them in utter poverty and despair.

The Missionaries.

The Hudson Bay Company.

The Canadian Government.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by fish4life » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:29 pm

Houses that are 10 years old are destroyed, I've seen an interview on the news complaining about how bad their house was and you could see a 50 inch flat screen in the background... How about you spend money on improving your house instead of a flat screen tv?

The most garbage filled water I have ever seen has been on reserves, so much for protecting their "pristine land" that they are one with.

I'd love to live the simple life my ancestors did and farm a small plot of land but that doesn't work anymore things change and its not sustainable so why do all the aboriginal communities feel like they don't have to adapt.
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Clearwater
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Clearwater » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:00 pm

On reserve housing is not quite that simple.

The vast majority of on reserve homes are owned by the band. Even if it were permitted why would a tenant pay to renovate a home that they do not, and in most cases cannot own? In a year you might not be living in it.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by thirdtimecharm » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:30 pm

Cat Driver wrote:There may be some improvement if " all " of the employees of Indian Affairs and Northern Development were to be moved out of Ottawa and every employee's office were on a reserve.

The Government employees could choose their reserve based on seniority in the system.

P.S. :

I know the name has been changed over the years but the act remains the same with the same drones living off the backs of the Natives.

Three things broke the backs of natives....and keeps them in utter poverty and despair.

The Missionaries.

The Hudson Bay Company.

The Canadian Government.
This is very, very true.

A lifetime ago, when I was starting my third business in Iqaluit I needed $10,000 to go towards the purchase of a van and was tapped out at the bank. I had written two business plans for the Royal Bank and they seemed to like them.

I went to DIAND (INAC, AANDC, whatever) and they said that they had a pot of money that would help me get this $10K. I just needed to do a business plan.

But, according to DIAND, I wasn't able to write my own business plan and they would hire me a consultant to work on a business plan/proposal. This cost $8,000.00 and the guy was a real goofball. But, I figured because they gave me money to hire specifically him, things would turn out ok.

Once the business plan was complete, they now said that they had to hire another consultant to do due diligence on my business plan. This cost $10,000.00 and the guy was a friend of both the DIAND person and the guy who wrote my business plan.

After two months, and careful consideration the consultant recommended that my application NOT be approved because it would disrupt the local market.

So, DIAND spent $18,000 on consultants to reject my $10,000 application. I know several other people who went through the same process with the same result.

Now, when the average Canadian looks at INAC's budget, they see that $18K multiplied by umpteen other times (just in Nunavut) and conclude that all this money is going to "lazy and ignorant aboriginal people who should just move to the city".

If I were a complete moron (an it later turned out that I was) they would have saved money by giving me the $10K and presumably it would have had a greater impact on the local economy.

Indigenous Affairs is a clever name for a federal department that channels money to southern people and businesses- and strangely enough one of the largest sectors to receive this money is the Aviation industry...
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by pdw » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:41 am

Longtimer wrote:
anofly wrote:That is dire. Conditions in general, are shocking, many houses are heavily damaged... .. and housing is in short supply. many live in sheds they have built out beside a house.
What damaged the houses? People, neglect or weather?
The first time we heard about Attawapiskat 5 years ago was actually a weather (high moisture) disaster above everything else, still an untold story. That October they went from nearly 30C to -6 over a few weeks at 100%RH (wx-history interpolated since no records then at CYAT). By the time the fireplaces etc were lit the indoor air had sat so wet everywhere the mold growth took off like crazy; then shortly also the opposite as dry indoor air (very cold outside) easily spread the loose mold spores. People got sick. No one could help since no one knew / didn't realize (thought it was 100% finances). Our understanding of dehumidifying and humidifiers (regulating humidity) would have been put to the test.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by NunavutPA-12 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:30 am

pdw wrote:
Longtimer wrote:
anofly wrote:That is dire. Conditions in general, are shocking, many houses are heavily damaged... .. and housing is in short supply. many live in sheds they have built out beside a house.
What damaged the houses? People, neglect or weather?
The first time we heard about Attawapiskat 5 years ago was actually a weather (high moisture) disaster above everything else, still an untold story. That October they went from nearly 30C to -6 over a few weeks at 100%RH (wx-history interpolated since no records then at CYAT). By the time the fireplaces etc were lit the indoor air had sat so wet everywhere the mold growth took off like crazy; then shortly also the opposite as dry indoor air (very cold outside) easily spread the loose mold spores. People got sick. No one could help since no one knew / didn't realize (thought it was 100% finances). Our understanding of dehumidifying and humidifiers (regulating humidity) would have been put to the test.
At least, that's what the media said ...... I wouldn't put much stock in that explanation.

The houses aren't heated with "fireplaces". Most have oil-fired furnaces and a few have wood stoves.

Are you referring to the flood in the spring of 2014? I've never heard it referred to as a "high moisture disaster", but I guess you could call it that! :roll:

The mold after the flood could have been cured with a thorough cleaning, but who wants to do that!
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Meatservo » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:25 pm

You know, a lot of people read things in the news and have a comment to make about the Indians, about how they would do better for themselves to get off their butts and get jobs, do their own home improvements, get educations, move out of their crappy little towns so they can do better for themselves in cities, or whatever. Or at least, become hewers of wood and haulers of water and go back to the land they always seem to be pining for even though they are living right in the middle of it. I know I have said things like that, not just about aboriginal people but generally about anyone who lives in a squalid, crappy little town somewhere with no amenities, nothing to do, and no future except more of the same boring shit day after day.

But just recently, I started hating my job. Not like I actually hate doing it, but I don't really have anyone to look up to particularly, all the interesting stuff seems to be someone else's business and not mine, and I don't feel like I have much of a future. I guess I could look for a new job, but I like my house, and my friends, my wife has a good job, and I don't think I'm really going to be able to get a better situation elsewhere without having to tolerate actually doing WORSE for a while. Which I feel I'm too old, crabby and disillusioned to be able to withstand. So I just kind of come in, do my thing, and leave. I'm pretty good at it, and that gives me some satisfaction sometimes, but mostly I'm just phoning it in.

Anyway, I think many underachievers like myself feel the same way once in a while, but the reason this has to do with the Natives is this: I too have a few home improvements to make. I too, could be spending my spare time getting another degree, or looking for a more interesting job where they appreciate me more. I, too, could get off my ass and get some fresh air, or shovel the driveway, get a haircut, do the laundry, or buy flowers for my wife. The furnace needs cleaning and I was supposed to paint the window-frames last fall and just never did. Because I get home from work and get a beer and sit there thinking about the days' perceived injustices and then go to bed. I could do all kinds of great stuff, but the mood I'm in these days, it just seems less soul-crushing to just say "meh", grab a beer and sit there letting the universe do entropy and stuff without my participation.

Now, WTF does this have to do with Atawapiskat.... well, I guess, if I, with all my first-world problems, can end up feeling this way sometimes, with my admittedly well-paying, professional job, pretty wife, nice house and funny, smart friends, imagine how much harder it must be to summon the will do do anything about yourself when you live in a crappy, mouldy house, maybe they pay you to plough the runway once in a while or whatever, but generally you have no job, and certainly not one that makes you feel any good about yourself, you never got an education, and if you tried to get one, your friends would have made fun of you anyway, because that's what people are like- mean and small-minded- and you would have had to leave home (and stay where? and eat what?) in order to get that education, food is expensive and you're slowly dying of malnutrition because all you eat is chips, because no-one taught you to cook even if you could afford better food. Yours and your parents' and your grandparents' spiritual life, or sense of place in the universe, or cultural heritage, or language, has been systematically destroyed by generation after generation of people from away who come to your village and tell you they're here to help, and then wind up just stealing and raping your kids, taking things from you, making fun of you, replacing your traditions with ones that are illogical or untenable in the context of your knowledge of the world, and basically telling you everything you've been doing is wrong. You think they aren't aware of what we really think of them? Do you think it doesn't affect an entire group of people to know they are looked down upon? You think someone like this is gonna spring out of bed one day, and suddenly clean the house, sell it, move away to the city, buy decent clothes and get a job, use the money to pay for an education, get a better job and then have a family, and raise them in a nice place and forget all about the little town he came from? Yeah, maybe one or two people in a hundred have the emotional wherewithal to pull off a move like that: I'm not sure I do. What we're talking about here is generation after generation of people suffering from chronic depression. You might think, next time you feel a little sorry for yourself, what it must be like to have felt like that 24 hours a day for your whole life since you were a little kid.

I don't propose a solution, but I am starting to understand the problem. Sorry for being sanctimonious or self- righteous. I don't mean to be. Next time a native kid steals something from my car, or they barricade the road, or whatever, I'll be spitting nails along with every other whitey who gets inconvenienced because they live side-by-side in this country with a group of other people who are angry, disillusioned, and depressed. I'm probably part of the problem, and I recognize that, but I'm just too placid and self-absorbed to get off my ass and do anything about it.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by crazyaviator » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:32 pm

I have not read as honest and as humble a post here in avcanada for a LONG LONG time! BRAVO Meatservo :D
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by pdw » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:57 pm

+1
NunavutPA-12 wrote:Are you referring to the flood in the spring of 2014?
No no, referring there to heavy humidity off the Bay in 2011 for 3 weeks. Heat not required until it got cold but in the meantime was too wet, ie rotten bathrooms etc. (Similar to the black mold outbreak in Lansdowne House 5 years before that ... 2005/2006).
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by NunavutPA-12 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:19 pm

pdw wrote:+1
NunavutPA-12 wrote:Are you referring to the flood in the spring of 2014?
No no, referring there to heavy humidity off the Bay in 2011 for 3 weeks. Heat not required until it got cold but in the meantime was too wet, ie rotten bathrooms etc. (Similar to the black mold outbreak in Lansdowne House 5 years before that ... 2005/2006).
Roger that.

So don't you think it would be reasonable for the band (who are the owners of those houses after all) to take just a little of the 400 million or so that they get annually from the feds and the mining companies and maybe repair or replace those houses. I understand that the "tenants" would not be anxious to do the clean-up work because they are at the mercy of the band, but for the amount of money the band gets there's no excuse for anyone to be living in those conditions. Geeze, with only 1,800 people everyone should be living in brand new houses. Come to think of it, I guess at one time they were living in brand new houses!

Of course, the rulers of that fiefdom could, if they chose, sell the houses off to the occupants for a dollar and then they could all be home owners and maybe would at least have the pride of ownership. Of course, the band councillors would get first pick of the best houses. After all, they are the elite.

However, those elite would never agree to sell the houses or give them away because they would then give up the primary means of exercising total control over the little people, which was likely their whole purpose in getting elected.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Clearwater » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:59 pm

Where on earth did you come up with $400 million for a reserve with 1800 people?
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Clearwater » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:11 pm

The most recent numbers are from 2012-2013.

The band received total funding for all programs including health and education of $34.9 million. If your population number of 1800 is correct that is $19,994.44 per person.

Though you might not realize it, you likely get more than that from Federal and Provincial governments in the form of health care, education, policing etc.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by DanWEC » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:20 pm

I'm hesitant to enter the fray here so I won't say much, but I've lived around reserves and native towns in multiple provinces. It's not a native problem per se, it's a textbook geographical poverty problem with different lighting.

Meat, been really enjoying your posts lately. I think less work and more beer is in order for our collective benefit!
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Last edited by DanWEC on Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Clearwater
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Clearwater » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:21 pm

The "elite" leaders were paid as follows for the year ending August 2015:

Chief $80K per year
Councilors Lowest $19K Highest $69K
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by NunavutPA-12 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:24 pm

Clearwater wrote:The most recent numbers are from 2012-2013.

The band received total funding for all programs including health and education of $34.9 million. If your population number of 1800 is correct that is $19,994.44 per person.

Though you might not realize it, you likely get more than that from Federal and Provincial governments in the form of health care, education, policing etc.
Except that they also got 300 million from local mines in 2013. Where did that money go?

But yes, I'm in error: scratch the word "annually" from my post. My apologies for that.

At any rate, per capita, they have received enough over the last few years to build a brand new house for each of the 500 families on the reserve.
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Clearwater
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Clearwater » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:36 pm

That money doesn't appear on their audited financial statements so I guess we'll just have to trust you.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by pdw » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:47 pm

trey kule wrote:
Has anyone on here actually LIVED on a reserve (northern reserve that is - the southern ones are almost "normal")?

Yep, and like the others, I agree with you. The problem is the media plays to the chief's tune and those who know nothing else but what they see in the media are clueless. Like the University types who spend three days on a reserve listening to stories and then return to share their deep wisdom.
Yeah, the writer would have to live in the community for a good length to be able to understand to write accurately. With so much input here from the northern aviators in the know,... is maybe showing this forum has editors that could keep the good narrative about this subject on track ?
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by xysn » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:09 pm

Plenty of blame to go around, and whatever the problem is ain't gonna be solved today, or tomorrow, or even in this generation. One thing that needs to happen IMHO is the centralized negotiations between the groups "representing" first nations (e.g. AFN) and INAC, this country is too damn big to come up with policies and changes that fit everyone. Bands live in all sorts of geographies with different histories and languages and different needs.

The only places where there've been success is where smaller groups of bands / tribes / whatever have dealt with the province (e.g. James Bay Cree & Quebec; the bands in BC without treaties) ... a lot of the issues are to do with health, education, and property title where the province is better placed to help with the first nation transition to self-government anyway.

All these attempts at grand solutions between INAC and national native groups have always down in flames.

IMO Ottawa should just set a framework like it does for health and encourage the bands to deal with the province.
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longjon
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by longjon » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:11 am

Is this the band that wouldn't let an audit done on their finances?
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Re: Attawapiskat

Post by pdw » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:10 am

No trivial band spat like that now at all (actually, thought that got resolved and the mold crisis was henceforth dealth with). This is the town in northern Ontario along James Bay where the multi suicide concerns were ongoing and at the present time, even among their younger children. All reliable news sources seem to have gotten in sync on this concern; latest news is the town's chief this weekend had sent out an urgent appeal for our prayers in the matter.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Gorgons » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:38 am

Property maintenance, a complicated matter. Band members typically don't own anything, they can't own the property they live on. But to make a simpler point lets say you want to make a repair or upgrade. Walk down to the local Northern or community store and check out the hardware section, its probably very close to the electronics section. A sheet of plywood or maybe a sheet of panelling? Maybe a 2 x 4? Nope... you could buy a hammer or a screwdriver though. Tape and glue, sure got lots of that! A plumbing problem... Hmmm maybe I can fix it with some tape and glue? Home Depot and Lowes's don't seem to be interested in establishing locations on first nations reserves.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by Rockie » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:28 am

Meatservo

That was the most articulate and insightful commentary on the problem I've ever read from any source anywhere at any time. I think you nailed it, and bravo for not once opining on what the solution is because nobody outside of these places has a clue about that. Certainly not the government.

Your "editorial" if I may call it that should be published in every newspaper across the country.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by fish4life » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:59 am

Ok there might not be a Home Depot on a reserve but that doesn't mean that they have to rip up floor boards to burn them for a fire or leave garbage EVERYWHERE, burned out cars and smashed windows littering the community.
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by av8ts » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:26 am

Sorry Meatservo but I think that is a horrible defeatist attitude. If our ancestors though like that we would all still be living in mud and stick huts in Africa and Europe. Like doesn't just happen "to" you. You go out and make it happen. That 1000 mile journey starts with one step
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Re: Atawapiskat

Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:03 am

av8ts wrote:Sorry Meatservo but I think that is a horrible defeatist attitude. If our ancestors though like that we would all still be living in mud and stick huts in Africa and Europe. Like doesn't just happen "to" you. You go out and make it happen. That 1000 mile journey starts with one step
No, I think Meatservo is exactly right, and the vast majority of people live like that. I'm sure Meatservo had to move around to find jobs early in his career, but most people are too lazy to even do that.

Not everyone is ambitious or adventurous. Out of a band of 100 hunter gatherers, it was probably one or two that explored a few hundred miles away, then one or two leaders who encouraged the band to move. Similar for the creativity and individualism to decide to put a different type of roof on your house to everyone else, or to build your house from a different material, etc.

If everyone was adventurous the human race would likely die out pretty quickly because everyone would always be out exploring new areas and nobody would have time to do all the boring-but-important stuff like gather food, raise children, etc.
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