704/705 ground school requirments

[WeatherMaster]

Hi,

I was wondering what the ground school requirements are for 704/705 operations for an initial type rating and also for recurrent ground school? Is this mandated by TC or does each company get approval for "X" hours of ground school?

[Rockie]

CAR's are the regulatory requirement and the standard (CASS) details how to comply with the regulation.

704

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... m#724a_115


705

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... tm#725_124

[WeatherMaster]

Thanks for the info, but after going through those links I am not seeing any actual hours required for teaching ground school. IE 20 hours of ground school for an initial PPC.

[lownslow]

In the 703 world (I know, not what you asked) they call out for X hours of this and that, then each company Ops Manual will have similar call-outs which get approved by TC and used operationally. I'm not terribly interested in running a 704 or 705 right now but I would imagine that if the CARs/Standards aren't specific then each Ops Manual has some approved program that varies from case to case on any number of factors.

[Rockie]

Thanks for the info, but after going through those links I am not seeing any actual hours required for teaching ground school. IE 20 hours of ground school for an initial PPC.

I've never seen anything dictating the number of hours for ground school courses, just required content as per the standard.

[WeatherMaster]

Yes, that is what I am trying to confirm. Each company sets their own requirements that will get approved by TC.

Thanks!

[oldtimer]

If you go to the CARS Standards, look for CASS 724.115 (30) and you will find a list of the minimum required training for 704. There should be the same style of training program requirements for 705.
CASS 724.115(30) shows a minimum of 16 hours training for a basic aeroplane plus 4 hours for turbine and another 4 hours for pressurization, plus any other training specific to each and every aeroplane.
The times listed are the minimum acceptable times that must be included in the Company Operations Manual however, the COM may include higher minimum requirements. As an example, a 704 operator operating in the B.C. mountains may require training specific to that area. Everything you need to know about training is in the CARS and CASS and the Company COM with little or know interpretation required.

[Rockie]

If you go to the CARS Standards, look for CASS 724.115 (30) and you will find a list of the minimum required training for 704. There should be the same style of training program requirements for 705.
CASS 724.115(30) shows a minimum of 16 hours training for a basic aeroplane plus 4 hours for turbine and another 4 hours for pressurization, plus any other training specific to each and every aeroplane.
The times listed are the minimum acceptable times that must be included in the Company Operations Manual however, the COM may include higher minimum requirements. As an example, a 704 operator operating in the B.C. mountains may require training specific to that area. Everything you need to know about training is in the CARS and CASS and the Company COM with little or know interpretation required.

I believe those times are specific aircraft training (the type rating the OP mentioned), but do not include generic courses like company indoc, CFIT, CAT II/III, Low energy go-around, fire fighting, CRM etc. In the 705 world at least we require generic recurrent, non-aircraft specific ground school every year in addition to recurrent aircraft training. This training, like aircraft training, works on a matrix with certain subjects required on a rotating basis.

[the goal is soul]

lownslow has it: 725.124 essentially tells you to tell TC (via your COM) how many hours your training will be. They accept it, or they don't. Really though, they accept what you say if it's reasonable, and reserve the right to sit in and monitor your training for effectiveness.

@Rockie: Are all fleets at AC on an AQP program?

[Rockie]

lownslow has it: 725.124 essentially tells you to tell TC (via your COM) how many hours your training will be. They accept it, or they don't. Really though, they accept what you say if it's reasonable, and reserve the right to sit in and monitor your training for effectiveness.

@Rockie: Are all fleets at AC on an AQP program?

At mainline - yes. Rouge is not.

[Big Bird Anonymous]

You would be wise to invest in a con$ultant...even though expensive, you will save weeks even months of back and forth with TC. The savings alone justify the cause.

[yxu737]

Hey weathermaster
Are you looking at starting an airline? Definitely would probably be best to consult an expert

[loopy]

I believe the matrix that used to be in the standards is no longer there. The items need to be covered but there are no arbitrary course times anymore.

[co-joe]

It's an interesting question though. How big does the aeroplane have to be, before; "you'd better start studying, your ride's tomorrow" won't fly any more?