2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired

[crazyaviator]

Is being addicted to strong drugs or paedophilia or raping women a disease ? Can one prescribe drugs, change in lifestyle or life changes to overcome (cure) the psychological AND physiological altering effects of a conscious decision? yes ! Often, it is OUR choice to choose to use a substance, knowing its potential for addiction, which thereafter effects us to such an extent that medical intervention along with a change in lifestyle is required to recover! My father never recovered,, it was more a state of mind for him ( He didn't have any problem) than a willingness to seek medical and /or other assistance. I regulate my consumption of aircraft, hang gliders, alcohol, food and scantily clad women (( addiction)) in order to prevent needed intervention if i get too much of a good ( or bad) thing

[porcsord]

Alcoholism is not a disease. It's an addiction. If you take an alcoholic and lock them in a room and provide them food and water, they will live, I don't think you can say the same about Ebola. Good on you . for finding a way to quit, but it's not a disease.

People who claim that it's a disease are just not capable of admitting to their own faults.

[photofly]

Alcoholism is not a disease. It's an addiction. If you take an alcoholic and lock them in a room and provide them food and water, they will live, I don't think you can say the same about Ebola.

You can however say the same for genital warts or the common cold, both of which are diseases.

Diseases don't have to be caused by external organisms you know: look up lupus or schizophrenia. You need to widen you understanding of what the word "disease" means.

[porcsord]

You're going to tell me that somebody was born with a predisposition to consume a man made product. Good one. Just an addictive personality, or a lack of willpower to say no.

[Old fella]

The American Medical Association and American College of Physicians and others in the Medical field do consider alcoholism a disease, however I couldn't find what the Canadian Medical Association position is nor the Canadian equivalent of the College of Physicians. To be fair there are dissenting opinions from eminent authorities mainly in the Physocology field who do not consider an alcoholic to have a disease. Then again, I don't practice medicine nor hold a medical degree.

[porcsord]

It involves choice, the first drink was a choice, ergo not a disease. I'll concede to it developing into a serious mental health issue.

[pelmet]

Perhaps a mental weakness is more likely.

Perhaps it is a mental weakness and not an addiction to a chemical substance.

For sure I was addicted.

However I did seek help from AA twice and eventually admitted myself to a chemical addiction treatment center which at the time was very expensive...$12,000 in 1985.

The treatment worked and my life was extended.

Using your suggestion that it is a mental weakness, how did I manage to finally find a cure?

Was it random chance that finally cured my problem and I am still mentally weak?

There are probably guys who try the Schtik thing, give up and AA works for them. Each mind is different.

Schick Shadel uses drug treatment including sodium pentothal to reprogram the memory area of the brain and for me it worked.

Chemical addiction? Of course as humans we are just a bunch of chemicals acting in concert together to form life. Every thought and action requires chemical process. I'm no expert on the subject of addiction but....someone mentioned about crack. Well, any one of us can become a crack addict as it is very physically addictive(although it takes the initial mental stupidity to try hard drugs before you are addicted). So is caffeine apparently.

There seems to be other addictions that are mentally so. Gambling, booze, even these video games. I got into the video game one a few years back and spent hours and hours trying to reach a certain level in a video game. There was mental reward and desire from the game. Different but with some similarities. Of course, I eventually overcame it. I would say you overcame your mental weakness with your therapy.

To quote a very successful doctor in New York that uses sodium pentathol for alcaholism...

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/22/nyreg ... ation.html

"Mainstream treatments focus on halting the physical craving and euphoria generated from drugs but Dr. Prasad believes that they are secondary to the thought processes that are the root of the addiction.

''It is not the chemical changes that occur from smoking or drinking alcohol, because how come only one or two out of 10 become addicted?'' he said. ''It is the effect on the mind, the elation, which is an abstract concept. In gambling, where is the chemical reaction? The thrill of winning or losing is registered in the mind.

''Once you try a pleasure-producing experience like smoking, drinking or drugs, your intellect begins to lose control over that activity,'' he continued. ''Your intellect doesn't object the first few times but when it tries to put the brakes on after it is locked into your emotional thought process, it's too late. You are hooked.''

Dr. Prasad views his role as a guide in helping the patient make some mental adjustments. ''Sometimes our internal thought processes are not working in our favor,'' he said. ''I want to help you adjust them so they do work in your favor.''

He calls this adjustment ''fighting fire with fire.'' While the patient is in the semi-sedated state he conducts a coaching session where he uses the patient's emotions and intellect to overwhelm the pleasure or fear that is at the root of the addictions or phobias.

The treatment under sodium pentothal takes about an hour, and it is achieved by using an intravenous drip while the patient is seated."

So yes, you have a mental weakness that you were able to overcome by physical adjustment of the chemicals in your brain. Some have the mental strength to do it without needing this outside help using just their own remaining strength of mind(or willpower) at a place like AA while others don't have that mental strength and require additional help. Whatever works as the most important thing for society is to prevent those with this weakness from acting so irresponsibly due to their weakness of mind that doesn't allow them to put passenger safety ahead of their desire.

That being said, there are no doubt cases where it is a one-off thing where someone just made a stupid decision but is not actually an alcoholic but decided to take the chance after drinking with some colleagues on a layover for example. I suppose they are the types that don't drink alone or every day. But if they happen to get caught, they are able in many cases(especially if they have union support like Gilles) to use the "I have a disease" excuse to preserve their job. In reality, the latter are more likely to never do it again while the real alcoholic likely will.

[crazyaviator]

When a child is diagnosed with overactivity, it is often prescribed with drugs to put it in a semi-comatose state ! In the old days, the children would be running around , burning off steam, and thereafter would have no problem in the classroom. In our advancing atheistic society, Doctors, acting like gods, prescribe a fix for a moral or lifestyle issue ( overeating/ paedophilia) and often neglect the underlying causes. When a pilot screws up, they will often cover it up or go to court and lie and deceive to prevent a guilty plea, this is a moral issue NOT a "pilot's disease" Another issue I have is when a pilot says " I dont give a rats ass about my passengers, as long as I can get my hide to safety, my passengers will live too" This is called "lack of moral fibre" in the old days , but is irrelevant in our "advanced" culture

[Youcantbeserious]

Anyone who thinks alcoholism is not a disease is so ignorant of the facts. My father was an alcoholic (in recovery) my grandma is an alcoholic and I'm sure if you dug deeper into my family history you'd find more.

Its a DISEASE. It's not as simple as just never picking up a drink. EVERYBODY is going to pick up a drink at some point in their lives. If you haven't congrats on sainthood.

Maybe lets not judge these fellow pilots until the facts are released. I have no idea whether alcoholism has anything to do with this but anyone that wants to come out and run their mouth on the issue is so ignorant. Alcoholism is a diseases. Some people cant help it. Some people need help. Hopefully anyone in our profession who needs help will seek it after this.

[porcsord]

I'd argue the other way. Go up to to a cancer ward and sit with someone there and look for sympathy for your "disease". Calling alcoholism a disease is ignorant and insulting.

Watch this it's very applicable:

http://watchcartoonsonline.eu/watch/sou ... oody-mary/

[Lateralus]

I'd argue the other way. Go up to to a cancer ward and sit with someone there and look for sympathy for your "disease". Calling alcoholism a disease is ignorant and insulting.

Watch this it's very applicable:

http://watchcartoonsonline.eu/watch/sou ... oody-mary/

The only one ignorant and insulting here is you. You don't know a God Damn thing what you are talking about. I can only hope you or someone close to you never has to suffer from alcoholism and see how it destroys lives.

[porcsord]

Oh I've seen it destroy members of my family, doesn't mean I'm going to call it a disease. If you want to debate this further, come find me at the bar, I'll be the guy able to say no.

[DanWEC]

Your opinion is pure ignorance and douchebaggery at it's best.
It is classified as a disease, because it has been proven through physiological and neurological research that there are several factors that cause a predisposition to alcohol dependence.

There's a reason that's it's proven to be heritable, unless you can somehow explain a different reason other than proven genetics?

Instead of sitting at a bar without a drink waiting to get beat up like a weirdo, Google is your friend.......

http://www.joanmathewslarson.com/HRC_20 ... urHead.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442454/
http://www.faslink.org/alcoholism--defi ... lained.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4065474/

That search took about 10 seconds....There are literally thousands of more scholarly articles about the predisposition to alcoholism.
I only have a B.Sc. in Bio, but I know a bit about this subject as it runs in the family tree above me and I was concerned for myself and my future kids.

While, thankfully, I couldn't fathom what it is like, the brain chemistry makes the resistance of alcohol tougher that you could imagine, and the willpower required to turn around is more than I guarantee that you, or almost any non-afflicted individual, has put into almost anything.

Anyhow, why don't you do something worthwhile like refuting climate change or something, that shit seems phoney.

[Cat Driver]

Scientific research has isolated an enzyme that is found in alcoholics that certain people such as North American Indians or First Nations people are born with that makes it very difficult or impossible to not become addicted to alcohol if they drink it.

So for those of us who carry this enzyme which we have no control over, are we just weak willed mentally challenged individuals who are inferior and should not be pilots?

[porcsord]

Who would have thought consuming a toxic substance would have negative side effects! *gasp*. Darwinism at its finest.

I wonder if they will ever come up with a vaccine for alcoholism... Oh wait that would cause autism the and we would t want that.

[porcsord]

And nope, I believe that people with that enzym should avoid alcohol at all costs and seek help if they need it. Chemical addiction is very serious.

*ambiguous: they should be pilots, but like the rest of us should be punished to the full extent of the law for flying under the influence.

[AuxBatOn]

So for those of us who carry this enzyme which we have no control over, are we just weak willed mentally challenged individuals who are inferior and should not be pilots?

If it is such a problem that you cannot perform your duty without your disease/dependance having an impact on your performance, then no, you should not be allowed to be a pilot. To the same level that someone with other medical conditions, affecting the operation of the aircraft, cannot be a pilot.

[CpnCrunch]

Current research shows that Native Americans aren't any more likely to be biologically susceptible to alcoholism than anyone else:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/94286 ... -americans

(see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_a ... _Americans for references). The problems Native Americans have with alcoholism are thought to be related to social factors rather than genetics.

Some people are genetically predisposed to be alcoholics, but not because they're Native.

[Cat Driver]

Beyond any doubt anyone who makes the decision to fly while still impaired to any extent by alcohol or any other drug should be removed from the flying industry.

Conversely anyone who can recognise their addiction and cure the addiction by whatever means works for them can continue to fly for a living if they never drink again.

After I was treated by Shick Shadel I gave Transport Canada my treatment records from Schick Shadel and told them if I ever started drinking again they were to permanently cancel my pilots license.

That was in January of 1985, I went on to fly for a living until I retired in 2005 because I wanted to retire, not because I had to. To this day I have never even considered taking another drink because I do not wish to start that downward spiral ever again.

I am relating my personal story because maybe someone else will read it and decide they also can change their behaviour.

I am sure most here know that my real name is . . and Cat Driver is just my Avcanada handle.

[crazyaviator]

After I was treated by Shick Shadel I gave Transport Canada my treatment records from Schick Shadel and told them if I ever started drinking again they were to permanently cancel my pilots license.

That was in January of 1985, I went on to fly for a living until I retired in 2005 because I wanted to retire, not because I had to. To this day I have never even considered taking another drink because I do not wish to start that downward spiral ever again.

If i had a choice to sit down with a beer and talk shop to the above poster or with Captain Picard of the dead-stick airbus, I would pick . any day of the week. One is a hero, the other isn't. Can you guess which ?