2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired

[North Shore]

Personally, I don't get what the fuss is about. I fly private and commercialy under the influence frequently and I find it makes me a better pilot. Ive yet to have an accident or incident. As long as you can hide it, all the power to you.

...Indeed! All's they had to do was get it from the ramp to 400', and then they could have slept for another 6 hours before the difficult part started ~150 nautical back from YYZ!

[cdnpilot77]

As much as a few trolls here seem to be joking around about this I truly hope anyone reading this that suffers from the disease/ knows anyone who suffers from it uses this as an opportunity to get help.

I enjoy my beverages but I also know that sometimes when I go out I have a few more than planned and as a result I set a hard limit of 2 drinks when at work so that I don't get tempted to go down the dangerous road I'm sure many of us have been down where 3-4 beers turn into 15-20.

Just trying to understand what you're saying here. Are you making the conclusion that they are both alcoholics? That is was their disease and not their decision making that got them into this mess?

[fish4life]

If they were both drunk in the morning I'd say it was more likely a poor decision that lead to this but I'm hoping that reading about this may be the one extra thing someone who needs help sees to get them to find it.

[photofly]

Background on the law:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-gla ... t-36832625

...and it looks like the airline has increased its compensation to passengers:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-gla ... t-36865833

[crazyaviator]

The other day. I was in the shopping mall and that night i was sick,,,,,, Yesterday, I had a beer and I came down SICK for a year!!

I truly hope anyone reading this that suffers from the disease

Alcoholism is NOT a disease, that term is just a cop-out in this politically correct, no-fault society!

[Cat Driver]

Alcoholism is NOT a disease, that term is just a cop-out in this politically correct, no-fault society!

Interesting statement.

I had an addiction to alcohol that was ruining my life and I eventually cured it by admitting myself to Schick Shadel treatment center for alcoholics.

Twice I tried AA and that did not work for me, however the medical treatment at Shick Shadle did cure my addiction completely and I have not had a single alcohol drink since 1985 and was able to finish my flying career which I probably would not have been able to do had I not quit drinking.

Schick Shadel Hospital claims alcoholism is a disease, are you correct and they are wrong?

[pelmet]

Perhaps a mental weakness is more likely. After all, who had this disease prior to alcohol being invented? Did it just pop up the same day some scientist decided to taste is concoction.

There are probably guys who try the Schtik thing, give up and AA works for them. Each mind is different.

[Cat Driver]

Perhaps a mental weakness is more likely.

Perhaps it is a mental weakness and not an addiction to a chemical substance.

For sure I was addicted.

However I did seek help from AA twice and eventually admitted myself to a chemical addiction treatment center which at the time was very expensive...$12,000 in 1985.

The treatment worked and my life was extended.

Using your suggestion that it is a mental weakness, how did I manage to finally find a cure?

Was it random chance that finally cured my problem and I am still mentally weak?

There are probably guys who try the Schtik thing, give up and AA works for them. Each mind is different.

Schick Shadel uses drug treatment including sodium pentothal to reprogram the memory area of the brain and for me it worked.

I am going to end this conversation now as I do not wish to get into an argument about what alcholism is or is not.

For sure it is a very serious problem in society.

[CpnCrunch]

Once you see a friend or family member become an alcoholic or crack addict, it might change your perception. While there's certainly some willpower involved in quitting, it's not as simple as you might think. It basically reprograms your brain in a number of different ways to crave the alcohol, as well as making you feel like utter shit when you haven't had any. Luckily I don't have a problem with alcohol (I don't really like the effects), but a close family member had a severe problem with it, and it was very ugly. If you think you might have a problem with alcohol, the best thing to do is to avoid it completely, and get whatever help you need to do that.

[Rockie]

The other day. I was in the shopping mall and that night i was sick,,,,,, Yesterday, I had a beer and I came down SICK for a year!!

I truly hope anyone reading this that suffers from the disease

Alcoholism is NOT a disease, that term is just a cop-out in this politically correct, no-fault society!

Alcoholism is an affliction that takes over many lives along with other types of addiction. Every aspect of society recognizes that and countless people have recovered to lead normal lives - even exceptional lives - because society recognized the nature of the problem and provided healing mechanisms to deal with it.

Your attitude Crazyaviator is plain and simple ignorant.

[crazyaviator]

Is being addicted to strong drugs or paedophilia or raping women a disease ? Can one prescribe drugs, change in lifestyle or life changes to overcome (cure) the psychological AND physiological altering effects of a conscious decision? yes ! Often, it is OUR choice to choose to use a substance, knowing its potential for addiction, which thereafter effects us to such an extent that medical intervention along with a change in lifestyle is required to recover! My father never recovered,, it was more a state of mind for him ( He didn't have any problem) than a willingness to seek medical and /or other assistance. I regulate my consumption of aircraft, hang gliders, alcohol, food and scantily clad women (( addiction)) in order to prevent needed intervention if i get too much of a good ( or bad) thing

[porcsord]

Alcoholism is not a disease. It's an addiction. If you take an alcoholic and lock them in a room and provide them food and water, they will live, I don't think you can say the same about Ebola. Good on you . for finding a way to quit, but it's not a disease.

People who claim that it's a disease are just not capable of admitting to their own faults.

[photofly]

Alcoholism is not a disease. It's an addiction. If you take an alcoholic and lock them in a room and provide them food and water, they will live, I don't think you can say the same about Ebola.

You can however say the same for genital warts or the common cold, both of which are diseases.

Diseases don't have to be caused by external organisms you know: look up lupus or schizophrenia. You need to widen you understanding of what the word "disease" means.

[porcsord]

You're going to tell me that somebody was born with a predisposition to consume a man made product. Good one. Just an addictive personality, or a lack of willpower to say no.

[Old fella]

The American Medical Association and American College of Physicians and others in the Medical field do consider alcoholism a disease, however I couldn't find what the Canadian Medical Association position is nor the Canadian equivalent of the College of Physicians. To be fair there are dissenting opinions from eminent authorities mainly in the Physocology field who do not consider an alcoholic to have a disease. Then again, I don't practice medicine nor hold a medical degree.

[porcsord]

It involves choice, the first drink was a choice, ergo not a disease. I'll concede to it developing into a serious mental health issue.

[pelmet]

Perhaps a mental weakness is more likely.

Perhaps it is a mental weakness and not an addiction to a chemical substance.

For sure I was addicted.

However I did seek help from AA twice and eventually admitted myself to a chemical addiction treatment center which at the time was very expensive...$12,000 in 1985.

The treatment worked and my life was extended.

Using your suggestion that it is a mental weakness, how did I manage to finally find a cure?

Was it random chance that finally cured my problem and I am still mentally weak?

There are probably guys who try the Schtik thing, give up and AA works for them. Each mind is different.

Schick Shadel uses drug treatment including sodium pentothal to reprogram the memory area of the brain and for me it worked.

Chemical addiction? Of course as humans we are just a bunch of chemicals acting in concert together to form life. Every thought and action requires chemical process. I'm no expert on the subject of addiction but....someone mentioned about crack. Well, any one of us can become a crack addict as it is very physically addictive(although it takes the initial mental stupidity to try hard drugs before you are addicted). So is caffeine apparently.

There seems to be other addictions that are mentally so. Gambling, booze, even these video games. I got into the video game one a few years back and spent hours and hours trying to reach a certain level in a video game. There was mental reward and desire from the game. Different but with some similarities. Of course, I eventually overcame it. I would say you overcame your mental weakness with your therapy.

To quote a very successful doctor in New York that uses sodium pentathol for alcaholism...

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/22/nyreg ... ation.html

"Mainstream treatments focus on halting the physical craving and euphoria generated from drugs but Dr. Prasad believes that they are secondary to the thought processes that are the root of the addiction.

''It is not the chemical changes that occur from smoking or drinking alcohol, because how come only one or two out of 10 become addicted?'' he said. ''It is the effect on the mind, the elation, which is an abstract concept. In gambling, where is the chemical reaction? The thrill of winning or losing is registered in the mind.

''Once you try a pleasure-producing experience like smoking, drinking or drugs, your intellect begins to lose control over that activity,'' he continued. ''Your intellect doesn't object the first few times but when it tries to put the brakes on after it is locked into your emotional thought process, it's too late. You are hooked.''

Dr. Prasad views his role as a guide in helping the patient make some mental adjustments. ''Sometimes our internal thought processes are not working in our favor,'' he said. ''I want to help you adjust them so they do work in your favor.''

He calls this adjustment ''fighting fire with fire.'' While the patient is in the semi-sedated state he conducts a coaching session where he uses the patient's emotions and intellect to overwhelm the pleasure or fear that is at the root of the addictions or phobias.

The treatment under sodium pentothal takes about an hour, and it is achieved by using an intravenous drip while the patient is seated."

So yes, you have a mental weakness that you were able to overcome by physical adjustment of the chemicals in your brain. Some have the mental strength to do it without needing this outside help using just their own remaining strength of mind(or willpower) at a place like AA while others don't have that mental strength and require additional help. Whatever works as the most important thing for society is to prevent those with this weakness from acting so irresponsibly due to their weakness of mind that doesn't allow them to put passenger safety ahead of their desire.

That being said, there are no doubt cases where it is a one-off thing where someone just made a stupid decision but is not actually an alcoholic but decided to take the chance after drinking with some colleagues on a layover for example. I suppose they are the types that don't drink alone or every day. But if they happen to get caught, they are able in many cases(especially if they have union support like Gilles) to use the "I have a disease" excuse to preserve their job. In reality, the latter are more likely to never do it again while the real alcoholic likely will.

[crazyaviator]

When a child is diagnosed with overactivity, it is often prescribed with drugs to put it in a semi-comatose state ! In the old days, the children would be running around , burning off steam, and thereafter would have no problem in the classroom. In our advancing atheistic society, Doctors, acting like gods, prescribe a fix for a moral or lifestyle issue ( overeating/ paedophilia) and often neglect the underlying causes. When a pilot screws up, they will often cover it up or go to court and lie and deceive to prevent a guilty plea, this is a moral issue NOT a "pilot's disease" Another issue I have is when a pilot says " I dont give a rats ass about my passengers, as long as I can get my hide to safety, my passengers will live too" This is called "lack of moral fibre" in the old days , but is irrelevant in our "advanced" culture

[Youcantbeserious]

Anyone who thinks alcoholism is not a disease is so ignorant of the facts. My father was an alcoholic (in recovery) my grandma is an alcoholic and I'm sure if you dug deeper into my family history you'd find more.

Its a DISEASE. It's not as simple as just never picking up a drink. EVERYBODY is going to pick up a drink at some point in their lives. If you haven't congrats on sainthood.

Maybe lets not judge these fellow pilots until the facts are released. I have no idea whether alcoholism has anything to do with this but anyone that wants to come out and run their mouth on the issue is so ignorant. Alcoholism is a diseases. Some people cant help it. Some people need help. Hopefully anyone in our profession who needs help will seek it after this.

[porcsord]

I'd argue the other way. Go up to to a cancer ward and sit with someone there and look for sympathy for your "disease". Calling alcoholism a disease is ignorant and insulting.

Watch this it's very applicable:

http://watchcartoonsonline.eu/watch/sou ... oody-mary/