2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired

[porcsord]

And nope, I believe that people with that enzym should avoid alcohol at all costs and seek help if they need it. Chemical addiction is very serious.

*ambiguous: they should be pilots, but like the rest of us should be punished to the full extent of the law for flying under the influence.

[AuxBatOn]

So for those of us who carry this enzyme which we have no control over, are we just weak willed mentally challenged individuals who are inferior and should not be pilots?

If it is such a problem that you cannot perform your duty without your disease/dependance having an impact on your performance, then no, you should not be allowed to be a pilot. To the same level that someone with other medical conditions, affecting the operation of the aircraft, cannot be a pilot.

[CpnCrunch]

Current research shows that Native Americans aren't any more likely to be biologically susceptible to alcoholism than anyone else:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/94286 ... -americans

(see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_a ... _Americans for references). The problems Native Americans have with alcoholism are thought to be related to social factors rather than genetics.

Some people are genetically predisposed to be alcoholics, but not because they're Native.

[Cat Driver]

Beyond any doubt anyone who makes the decision to fly while still impaired to any extent by alcohol or any other drug should be removed from the flying industry.

Conversely anyone who can recognise their addiction and cure the addiction by whatever means works for them can continue to fly for a living if they never drink again.

After I was treated by Shick Shadel I gave Transport Canada my treatment records from Schick Shadel and told them if I ever started drinking again they were to permanently cancel my pilots license.

That was in January of 1985, I went on to fly for a living until I retired in 2005 because I wanted to retire, not because I had to. To this day I have never even considered taking another drink because I do not wish to start that downward spiral ever again.

I am relating my personal story because maybe someone else will read it and decide they also can change their behaviour.

I am sure most here know that my real name is . . and Cat Driver is just my Avcanada handle.

[crazyaviator]

After I was treated by Shick Shadel I gave Transport Canada my treatment records from Schick Shadel and told them if I ever started drinking again they were to permanently cancel my pilots license.

That was in January of 1985, I went on to fly for a living until I retired in 2005 because I wanted to retire, not because I had to. To this day I have never even considered taking another drink because I do not wish to start that downward spiral ever again.

If i had a choice to sit down with a beer and talk shop to the above poster or with Captain Picard of the dead-stick airbus, I would pick . any day of the week. One is a hero, the other isn't. Can you guess which ?

[SheriffPatGarrett]

Oh, well, in the old days, alcoholism was a kind of blessing for us permanently on the wagon...You see,
all airlines' management was run by a mafia of alkys, covering for each others since WW II.

Since the assholes were always passed out in a sort of coma, they left us at peace making a living, flying the damn airplanes.
And if the cappie was passed out in the left seat...well, that was when he was not ragging your ass...drunk or on hangover.

[CID]

When I started in aviation, pilots who drank a lot, and sometimes flew impaired were commonplace. I knew (know) many (yes....MANY) pilots who couldn't retain a driver's license because of DUI issues.

I know pilots who were pass-out drunk who only hours later were heading out the hotel to work. Work of course meant flying an aluminum tube full of innocent human beings in a high performance aircraft with a huge workload.

Nobody (including myself) said a damn thing because it was almost obligatory back then. Visiting the local airport bar in the evenings was basically exposing yourself to debauchery that would made a sailor blush.

With the advent and evolution of various programs and procedures like CRM and safety culture initiatives, that era is largely over. The overabundance of people with smart-phone cameras has helped too. Someone is always watching!

I've been told by one pilot in particular that those old days were the best. He romanticizes over the whole dare-devil angle that pilots seem to prescribe to. As if every "mission" (like flying YVR to YYZ in a 737) was a perilous undertaking that he may never return from so it's time to live it up!

We all know better now and even though there seems to be a bit of a transgression here, overall it's safer to fly these days and pilots are much more responsible about drinking and "driving" and drinking and "flying".

Beyond any doubt anyone who makes the decision to fly while still impaired to any extent by alcohol or any other drug should be removed from the flying industry.

I think that's a little harsh Cat Driver. You seem to have forgiven yourself for your addiction. Although you haven't stated that you flew impaired, my guess is that you've done other unsavory "stuff" that you wouldn't have done sober. We all make mistakes and sometimes pay with our lives or our health. I think a second chance should be considered for anyone who makes a mistake. You are not "owed" a second chance or "entitled" to one but certainly some people deserve one. Those "second chance" people are often better people than those "never caught" types.

If there was no empathy for people who make serous mistakes, what's the sense of releasing people from prison?

[pelmet]

Beyond any doubt anyone who makes the decision to fly while still impaired to any extent by alcohol or any other drug should be removed from the flying industry.

I think that's a little harsh Cat Driver. You seem to have forgiven yourself for your addiction. Although you haven't stated that you flew impaired, my guess is that you've done other unsavory "stuff" that you wouldn't have done sober. We all make mistakes and sometimes pay with our lives or our health.

Someone really shouldn't make due to a complaint from CID, edited from saying strong hints to "guesses" that "unsavoury things were done" when we don't really know this. Instead, maybe we can get the final truth from Cat himself. Like so many others did in the past, did you ever fly in the old "go go" days where you wouldn't have passed a modern day breathalyzer. Or were basically very sick from a hangover?

[CID]

"Strong hints"???

I did no such thing pelmet. I stated that "my guess" he did. That is a very open ended inquiry, not a strong hint of anything. Now of course I made no suggestion or "strong hint" that Cat Driver had a "mental weakness" but you did. How do you feel now?

So yes, you have a mental weakness that you were able to overcome by physical adjustment of the chemicals in your brain.

[Cat Driver]

I should have written this a bit different.

Code: Select all

Beyond any doubt anyone who makes the decision to fly while still impaired to any extent by alcohol or any other drug should be removed from the flying industry.

And added until they can demonstrate they no longer are a risk to fly impaired.

. ..

[pelmet]

Why the change? I think you are right in what you originally said and agree with you 100%.

On a further note....

Two Air Transat pilots from the GTA have been granted bail in a Glasgow court after being arrested last week for allegedly trying to fly a jet while under the influence of alcohol.

Captain Jean-Francois Perreault, 39, and first officer Imran Zafar Syed, 37, both of the Toronto area, were ordered to surrender their passports before they were set free at Paisley Sheriff Court on Tuesday, the Scottish Sun and Glasgow Live reported.

The men were arrested on July 18 at Glasgow Airport shortly before their flight to Toronto with a reported 250 passengers was due to take off.

The flight was delayed almost 24 hours.

Perreault and Syed had been held in custody for a week after a brief first court appearance July 19.

They are charged with performing an aviation function while over the legal alcohol limit, and threatening and abusive behaviour.

They have been suspended by the Montreal-based airline.

Air Transat president Jean-Francois Lemay said last week that the carrier will compensate the passengers “pursuant to the applicable European regulations.”'

The United Kingdom's Railway and Transport Safety Act bars people from conducting aviation functions “when the proportion of alcohol in (their) breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit.”

Canadian aviation regulations ban aircraft crew members from working while intoxicated or within eight hours of consuming alcohol.

The grounded jet’s passengers included celebrity decorators Colin McAllister and Justin Ryan, whose programs include “Cabin Pressure.”

Glasgow Live reported that Perreault and Syed were believed to have left via the back door of the court in a vehicle with blacked-out windows about 90 minutes after their court appearance

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/air ... spartandhp

[B208]

"Strong hints"???

I did no such thing pelmet. I stated that "my guess" he did. That is a very open ended inquiry, not a strong hint of anything. Now of course I made no suggestion or "strong hint" that Cat Driver had a "mental weakness" but you did. How do you feel now?

So yes, you have a mental weakness that you were able to overcome by physical adjustment of the chemicals in your brain.

Dude, guessing that someone did something is saying that you think they did something. You essentially stated that you think Cat has done unsavoury things. That's fine. You're allowed to hold and express any opinion that you want. However if you try and weasel out of it when someone calls you on it then you should not expect to be accorded much in the way of respect. You seem better suited to the legal profession than the aviation industry.

If there was no empathy for people who make serous mistakes, what's the sense of releasing people from prison?

Compassion and empathy for criminals needs to be tempered by compassion and empathy for their potential future victims.

[PilotDAR]

I'm wholly with . on this, our industry has no place for pilots who cannot/will not keep wide separation beween alcohol and flying.

I have made a personal choice to never drink, based on some very poor examples set for me in my youth. It was the right thing for me, and remains so to this day in ways I would never have expected. I worked in the airline industry in Canada in the '80's and personally witnessed a Captain being replaced immediately before a Transatlantic departure for suspicion of being intoxicated. Very memorable, and reinforced my choice fo myself.

[CID]

Spare me your ridiculous scolding B208. I respect Cat Driver's decision to seek help for his problem and I stand by my "guess" based on his comments.

had an addiction to alcohol that was ruining my life...

I have not had a single alcohol drink since 1985 and was able to finish my flying career which I probably would not have been able to do had I not quit drinking.

I do not wish to start that downward spiral ever again.

It was in the spirit of carrying on the discussion so that others may learn from his example. If he was perfectly content, a perfect member of society and an all round good guy to be around when he was drinking, why would he have pursued treatment???

People aren't alcoholics because they drink a lot. They're alcoholics when drinking consistently gets in the way of their happiness, your freedom, their health and their relationships. Pick one or more of those and you may have a problem with drinking.

[B208]

Spare ....... with drinking.

CID, how about you just spare us the burden of your presence? You are a complete nerf-herder.

[pelmet]

Spare ....... with drinking.

CID, how about you just spare us the burden of your presence? You are a complete nerf-herder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSwyNN7ms00

[squash junky]

Is it known what the actual BAC was?

[Prodriver]

I am going to assume that they were probably pounding back the Guinness in a great Scottish Pub, that stout stuff makes me Puke! I like a nice light Lager.

[co-joe]

I am going to assume that they were probably pounding back the Guinness in a great Scottish Pub, that stout stuff makes me Puke! I like a nice light Lager.

If you are looking for a way to take the edge off the Guiness, and in the process increase your blood alcohol level, add a shot of Jack Daniels. It's a serious improvement.

Totally not helpful to the discussion at hand or to showing up to work sober mind you.

[B208]

I am going to assume that they were probably pounding back the Guinness in a great Scottish Pub, that stout stuff makes me Puke! I like a nice light Lager.

If you are looking for a way to take the edge off the Guiness, and in the process increase your blood alcohol level, add a shot of Jack Daniels. It's a serious improvement.

Totally not helpful to the discussion at hand or to showing up to work sober mind you.

If I may suggest; Skip the Guiness and just add some ice to the Jack.......