Diamond Flight Centre Experience

[DanJ]

I started my instructor rating there a number of years ago when they were in the old building. After 4 flights I was told that there was no more availability for the next 2 months because a few western students were doing their instructor ratings. I said good ridence and got it done across the street in the next month or so. As far as I'm concerned they can all go pound salt from their high horse

20 years ago?

[Old Dog Flying]

Sitting here with a glass of fine Amber Medicinal in my hand and reading this thread makes me think that GA in Canada is going the way of the DODO bird.

During my more than 60 years in GA I ran 4 FTUs and at no time were renters screwed around in a manner that sent them "across the street". Renters were always welcome because sooner or later the student population would dry up and the operation required hours to pay the bills.

Recently a good friend, who has thousands of hours in aircraft of all categories, sold his taildragging beast and wanting to stay current until he could find another suitable aircraft, went to a FTU for a C172 check-out. After 45 minutes of dual he was handed a bill for well over $200.00 and told to come back for more dual...because the "circuit was full" and he was unable to demonstrate a PFL from downwind. This additional dual would take another 45 minutes!. Given the circumstances he told the young inexperienced instructor to stuff it.

As for the DA20, aka "Plastic Lawn Dart" , well it truly is about as boring as watching paint dry...and yes I've flown the type!. The 300 hour instructor was convinced that I was crazy doing 50 degree bank clearing turns and she almost cried when I did a 3 turn spin. She later came very close to pranging my Grumman AA1A..on take-off and was unable to fly a stabilized approach at 80 mph and again I had to take control. Or rick a bent aircraft.

Barney

[fixedpitch]

Recently a good friend, who has thousands of hours in aircraft of all categories, sold his taildragging beast and wanting to stay current until he could find another suitable aircraft, went to a FTU for a C172 check-out. After 45 minutes of dual he was handed a bill for well over $200.00 and told to come back for more dual...because the "circuit was full" and he was unable to demonstrate a PFL from downwind. This additional dual would take another 45 minutes!. Given the circumstances he told the young inexperienced instructor to stuff it.

hmmmm...circuit was full? Was that CYYJ by any chance?

Aside from that 90 minutes total ain't that bad for a checkout these days....but I get where you're coming from. And yes GA is probably going the way of the Dodo.

[Old Dog Flying]

Fixedpitch: No, not YYJ but one of the bigger operations on the Lower Mainland. And the school involved has been, rumor has it, sold to off-shore interests just like every tthing else in BC

[5x5]

I find it interesting that there is a common sense that today's young people feel so entitled. Yet at the same time, many older more experienced pilots express a very strong sense of entitlement when it comes to renting aircraft. Just because they have X number of hours or have flown a "mighty tail dragger" they shouldn't have to follow the same procedures as any other new customer.

With regulations and the oversight such as it is from TC these days, schools find it necessary to go through all the procedures regardless of background. If they try to shortcut things and an incident occurs afterward they can be in it with TC. And if you think that it's chicken-droppings to be "scared" of TC, then get your own OC and jump through the hoops and see how long you keep just throwing the keys across the counter to the next person who comes through the door.

Go to any fly-in around the country and watch and see how poorly many of the older, experienced pilots execute circuit procedures or handle radio communication. An hour or two with a "young, inexperienced instructor" who is current with regulations and procedures wouldn't do them any harm at all.

[digits_]

The funniest thing I remember from when I was the "young, inexperienced instructor" while checking out the "super experienced ex-bush pilot with 5 million flying hours" was that the super ace could not land the c172 without landing on the nosewheel every time. A suggestion on how to improve this (longer final, more shallow approach isntead of dive bombing to the runway) was of course laughed away every time as it was not the way a bush pilot flies an airplane. Followed by a lecture on how you should fly approaches.

Now that I think about it, I should have billed him for my time during his lecture. Needless to say he did not rent our airplane solo.

[Rookie50]

I find it interesting that there is a common sense that today's young people feel so entitled. Yet at the same time, many older more experienced pilots express a very strong sense of entitlement when it comes to renting aircraft. Just because they have X number of hours or have flown a "mighty tail dragger" they shouldn't have to follow the same procedures as any other new customer.

.

I think that's a fair point on older pilots.

Where I see the young people's entitlement, whether it's those holding a new CPL or a new MBA, is the attitude ---

A) "I now know everything and should start out at 100K a year, and for sure don't let me get my hands dirty anywhere"

And B) -- (training bonds) "the employer should train me for free, take all the risk, and if I get a better offer, I can walk anytime and the employer should eat the training costs". Why, exactly, should they?

And BTW, being in debt isn't the business owners issue, either. No one forced anyone to get 50 or 100 K in debt. Work first, like a dog if necessary, and pay as you go.

That's what many of us did, who didn't even have the option to borrow, let alone a mommy and daddy to live with and pay the bills.

business owners need to first be concerned with staying in business. Those who declare all operators for requiring training bonds low life's and I'll go elsewhere, many would say, "next, don't let the door hit you on the way out". And good luck.

Or set up (any) business and see just how easy it is. It's hard.

Not trying to be difficult about these things, just to see training bonds in context of the other qualities of a job. Starting out is really hard, I get that. If you try to see things from the employers point of view sometimes, might be a better relationship.

[iFlyAero]

I have flown at Diamond and I've also flown at different flight schools in the GTA. They typically require pilots/students to be extremely familiar with the aircraft systems and performance (i.e. studying the POH). By any means I'm not judging, but I find it hard to believe that OP was able to go through the POH and be thoroughly familiar with the aircraft in ONE night. And I would not be surprised at all if people need 2 flights to be proficient and checked out in the 20. It is VERY different from your typical trainer. You actually have to use your feet! Majority of their 20s are on glass and though it they are easy to use once you get to know it, I understand why he asked you to "play" on the G500 board - get to know it on the ground for free rather than spending extra 10mins in the air learning how to set the altimeter setting. That's the culture of the flight school and that's how they do things and like someone said earlier in this thread, if you can't adhere to their SOPs then yeah, things aren't going to work. Speaking as a former customer, DFC always provided wonderful, well-maintained equipment and a safe environment to fly.

[fixedpitch]

It is VERY different from your typical trainer. You actually have to use your feet!

I don't recall that it was that different from other trainers but maybe my memory is failing me. I found it easy to land and nothing exceptional in the air. The differential braking was a bit tricky. Otherwise it was pretty benign. However I had steam gauges not glass so maybe that's the biggest difference here.

As for other GTA checkouts my experience was a couple of hours to get checked out at BFC on the C172. At Markham and Buttonville it was about the same.

[atphat]

having either NO or next to NO experience in the real field of flying

What is "the real field of flying"? I'm curious.

Probably anything other than instructing?

[Cat Driver]

Probably anything other than instructing?

Really?

I loved instructing especially advanced flying.

And it paid very well, for the last ten or so years of my career I made 250 Euro per flight hour.

Teaching others the skills of flying and the importance of good decision making is the highest level a pilot can aspire to.

Do you get paid that much per hour atphat?

[atphat]

I don't make the equivalent of 250 euro per flight hour. I wish. What's your point? I should instruct?

[Cat Driver]

My point is directed at your comment that instructing is not the real world of flying.

In my opinion it is the most important and challenging sector of flying one can rise to.