Right Seat PC-12 & C208 PPC's coming to theatre near you soon!

[Gorgons]

Seems TC has been reading their own regs and standards and are about to implement what has been in writing for years but perhaps slipped through the cracks?

The PPC requirement for "Pilots" flying single-engine IFR with passenger or night VFR with passenger. Translation... F/O's require a PPC, not what seems to have become SOP with 703 carriers, the non-bonded PCC right seat travel companion.



723.88 Flight Crew Member Qualifications
(2) Competency Check

The standard for the Competency Check is:

(a) for pilots flying single-engine aeroplanes operated in Day VFR (passengers and cargo), IFR (cargo only) or night VFR (cargo only), the chief pilot, or a pilot delegated by the Chief Pilot, shall be responsible for the training and shall certify the competency of each pilot on the most complex single-engined aeroplane to be flown;
(amended 1998/06/01)

NOTE:

Pilots flying single-engine IFR with passenger or night VFR with passenger require a PPC.
(amended 1998/06/01; no previous version)

(b) for pilots flying as second-in-command on multi-engined aeroplanes operating under IFR or VFR is as follows:
(i) where the aeroplane is type certified for two-pilot operation, the second-in-command shall complete a competency check;
(amended 1998/06/01)
(ii) where operation of the aeroplane requires a type rating, and the second-in-command does not possess the required rating, he/she shall complete an initial pilot proficiency check as the qualifying flight to obtain the type rating. The Chief Pilot, or a pilot delegated by the Chief Pilot, shall then be responsible for annual recurrent training and will certify the competency of the pilot on each multi-engined aeroplane type to be flown. If the second-in-command already possesses the required type rating, the Chief Pilot or his delegate will be responsible for initial and recurrent training and certification of competency for each type of aeroplane to be flown;
(amended 1998/06/01)
(iii) for all other multi-engined aeroplanes, the Chief Pilot, or a pilot delegated by the Chief Pilot, shall be responsible for the training and will certify the competency of the pilot on each multi-engined aeroplane type to be flown; and
(iv) the Chief Pilot or a pilot delegated by the Chief Pilot, shall certify the competency of the pilot immediately following completion of the last training flight before the pilot is released to line operations; and
(amended 2000/06/01; no previous version)
(c) a pilot shall be certified as competent in the performance of those Pilot Proficiency Check items contained in Schedule I to subsection (1) above which are applicable to single-engined aeroplanes or multi-engined aeroplanes, as applicable, operating on wheels, floats or skis, as appropriate for the operation to be conducted.

[Saxub]

If an aircraft is certified single pilot but operated as two crew as per company AOC, and the PIC only has a two crew IFR PPC then I agree with this. The right seat should have a PPC.

If the PIC has a single pilot PPC, then they should be able to fly with a pilot who only has a PCC, however they would then be limited to 8 hours as per SPIFR rules and the right seat technically wouldn't be able to log the time as SIC.

However now you're getting int a grey area, as I know some contracts require two crew and to the layman they will just see two pilots and assume it's two crew. Even if it's being operated as SPIFR with a "Safety Pilot."

[ragbagflyer]

I don't think you're reading the regs correctly Gorgons. A "competency" check is a PCC.

[NotDirty!]

I don't think you're reading the regs correctly Gorgons. A "competency" check is a PCC.

Nobody is arguing with that. The key line is in the note following 723.88 (2)(a)

NOTE:

Pilots flying single-engine IFR with passenger or night VFR with passenger require a PPC.

There was a memo from TC last week that stated

The interpretation is on the qualification requirements for pilots acting in the capacity of a co-pilot (first-officer) on single-engine aircraft carrying passengers IFR or VFR at night.

It has been common practice amongst operators for the pilot-in-command to have a valid Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC) and the co-pilot to have a valid Pilot Competency Check (PCC) on type. It has been determined that this does not conform to the intent of CASS 723.88 (2)(a).

CASS 723.88(2)(a) requires that the pilot-in-command and co-pilot of single-engine aircraft carrying passengers IFR or VFR at night have a Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC).

[goingnowherefast]

If my memory serves me correctly, a SE-IFR PPC requires a sim portion. Would this revelation sway some operators away from the, already expensive, PC-12? (maintenance requirements on medium-to-old airframes is killer)

[lownslow]

If my memory serves me correctly, a SE-IFR PPC requires a sim portion. Would this revelation sway some operators away from the, already expensive, PC-12? (maintenance requirements on medium-to-old airframes is killer)

I read this (scroll down to Second-in-command) as not requiring sim training for FOs:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... 723a_98_24

[ragbagflyer]

Nobody is arguing with that. The key line is in the note following 723.88 (2)(a)

NOTE:

Pilots flying single-engine IFR with passenger or night VFR with passenger require a PPC.

There was a memo from TC last week that stated

The interpretation is on the qualification requirements for pilots acting in the capacity of a co-pilot (first-officer) on single-engine aircraft carrying passengers IFR or VFR at night.

It has been common practice amongst operators for the pilot-in-command to have a valid Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC) and the co-pilot to have a valid Pilot Competency Check (PCC) on type. It has been determined that this does not conform to the intent of CASS 723.88 (2)(a).

CASS 723.88(2)(a) requires that the pilot-in-command and co-pilot of single-engine aircraft carrying passengers IFR or VFR at night have a Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC).

Thanks for posting that memo.

This seems like a case of somebody at TC trying to cover their ass. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing forcing the companies to ppc the SIC in these instances is if over 8 hours of IFR flying is happening. Otherwise the flights can continue as SPIFR, with a swamper in the right seat.

[Rudy]

How long is the sim training good for anyways? If you've had it once could you go fly a Pilatus 10 years later with just a PPC ride?

[bobcaygeon]

No, same rules would apply as for all initial vs recurrent training requirements for re-qualification.

Sim would be required if initial training is required ie PPC expired greater than 24 months. If I recall correctly.

[Saxub]

This seems like a case of somebody at TC trying to cover their ass. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing forcing the companies to ppc the SIC in these instances is if over 8 hours of IFR flying is happening. Otherwise the flights can continue as SPIFR, with a swamper in the right seat.

I don't know about that, otherwise you'd need the same in a Navajo. Many operators fly over 8 hours IFR in Navajo's (certified single pilot) with a PPC'd Captain and PCC'd FO. Since the two crew is only required as per the COM the FO doesn't need a PCC. However, if you really look through the grey area then technically I would say any single pilot approved twin, that is operated as two crew and wants to take advantage of over 8 hours of IFR flying should require the FO to be PPC'd. There's a lot of what if's depending on different situations.