Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

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Meatservo
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Meatservo » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:30 pm

atphat wrote:Superior. No. Do I work in a much more professional, safe enivromnment than I did in the bush? Absolutely. Are you saying in your experience bush flying and pilots are held to the same standards as airline folk?

Mainline
No. I've done both. I hold myself to the same standards either way. I guess in the "bush" the onus is more upon the individual to hold oneself to whatever standards one considers appropriate. Guess it also would depend on our definition of "bush"... are we talking a super cub collecting minnows, or a DC-3 in Antarctica? I'm not ready to cast aspersions on the work ethic of others, but saying someone with a poor attitude belongs in the bush, which is what you were saying, only insults those who prefer to toil outside the mainline, and makes assumptions as to their professionalism which may or may not in fact be true.
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DrSpaceman
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by DrSpaceman » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:36 pm

I would agree with 180, except for the fact that if you enter an airline at 45, your quality of life will be inferior to all those who entered a decade earlier due to seniority. Being bottom of the list and missing holidays and birthdays is better done when you're young and single than with kids at 45.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by atphat » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:40 pm

Meatservo wrote:
atphat wrote:Superior. No. Do I work in a much more professional, safe enivromnment than I did in the bush? Absolutely. Are you saying in your experience bush flying and pilots are held to the same standards as airline folk?

Mainline
No. I've done both. I hold myself to the same standards either way. I guess in the "bush" the onus is more upon the individual to hold oneself to whatever standards one considers appropriate. Guess it also would depend on our definition of "bush"... are we talking a super cub collecting minnows, or a DC-3 in Antarctica? I'm not ready to cast aspersions on the work ethic of others, but saying someone with a poor attitude belongs in the bush, which is what you were saying, only insults those who prefer to toil outside the mainline, and makes assumptions as to their professionalism which may or may not in fact be true.
Good point. I am well aware there are some pros in the bush.
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Meatservo
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Meatservo » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:45 pm

atphat wrote:
Meatservo wrote:
atphat wrote:Superior. No. Do I work in a much more professional, safe enivromnment than I did in the bush? Absolutely. Are you saying in your experience bush flying and pilots are held to the same standards as airline folk?

Mainline
No. I've done both. I hold myself to the same standards either way. I guess in the "bush" the onus is more upon the individual to hold oneself to whatever standards one considers appropriate. Guess it also would depend on our definition of "bush"... are we talking a super cub collecting minnows, or a DC-3 in Antarctica? I'm not ready to cast aspersions on the work ethic of others, but saying someone with a poor attitude belongs in the bush, which is what you were saying, only insults those who prefer to toil outside the mainline, and makes assumptions as to their professionalism which may or may not in fact be true.
Good point. I am well aware there are some pros in the bush.
..and, I should say, that I learned a new respect for the airline pilots when I became one. It's just as important to know how to fly well at the airlines. No-one holds a monopoly on professionalism.
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180
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by 180 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:16 pm

DrSpaceman wrote:I would agree with 180, except for the fact that if you enter an airline at 45, your quality of life will be inferior to all those who entered a decade earlier due to seniority. Being bottom of the list and missing holidays and birthdays is better done when you're young and single than with kids at 45.
Chalk one up for 705'ers with socialized bidding. In 2016, I got both kids birthdays off, wife's birthday off, wedding anniversary off, and I have 10 days off over Christmas and New Years. I'm sure I won't be this lucky every year, but not all 705'ers run scheduling and vacations around seniority.

Now all that aside, it's true that 45 is probably a bit late to join the 705 world, and if I could do it all over again, I would have probably targeted 35, but like I said, I have no regrets to spending longer than usual on the scenic route. My younger counterparts will definitely be wealthier monetarily than I in the long run, but some life experiences...well, it's impossible to put a price tag on living life.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:01 pm

180 wrote:Remember, life isn't about the destination, it's about the journey.
Isn't the destination in life just the grave at the end? 8)
Kidding aside, my couple seasons on float hasn't really helped my career progression much, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. It certantly did help my decision making, and taught me how to say "f**k this", pull a 180 and go somewhere else instead.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by B208 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:46 pm

Air Force. You want to make decisions, that's the place.
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pilotidentity
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by pilotidentity » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:33 am

I have to agree with 180, have some fun while your young and can actually handle the hard work and stress... you won't regret it!

You'll know when the time is right for you to "get out" even if getting out means going back or changing careers.

For me it was in my mid thirties when I became a father. I don't mind that pilots 15 or even 20 years younger than me make more money, there are literally millions of people out there in all walks of life that make more money than me! Good for them!

I am happy with what I have, and so lucky to be born in Canada.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by lownslow » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:18 am

Eugene_goostman wrote:Being gone over half the month. Low to moderate pay to start. Eventually make good money but then you are married to your company. Hanging out with people you barely know. Hotels suck. Flying is pretty boring if you are honest. Eating out sucks. I liked things better when I was a 703 pilot and actually flew airplanes and made decisions besides how I want my coffee.
You should take this attitude on the road and do a speaking tour of all this country's 703 operators...
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Eugene_goostman
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Eugene_goostman » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:37 am

lownslow wrote:
Eugene_goostman wrote:Being gone over half the month. Low to moderate pay to start. Eventually make good money but then you are married to your company. Hanging out with people you barely know. Hotels suck. Flying is pretty boring if you are honest. Eating out sucks. I liked things better when I was a 703 pilot and actually flew airplanes and made decisions besides how I want my coffee.
You should take this attitude on the road and do a speaking tour of all this country's 703 operators...
I should. Basically said to my old boss when I saw him a couple weeks ago "too bad your pilots don't know that the most fun they'll ever have flying is right now."

Update. Still hate it.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by mbav8r » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:40 am

So, do something about it! I'm sure you could go back to 703/704, I don't know you but if your hate for the job your doing comes with you, you'll be poisoning the people around you. I hate working with people who don't want to be there and wish they would just go where they think they might be happier!
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Rockie » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:46 am

Eugene_goostman wrote:Update. Still hate it.
Ok, so how old are you, how senior are you, and what position do you have at your current employer? Also what are your personal circumstances in general, wife, kids etc?
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Rockie » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:47 am

B208 wrote:Air Force. You want to make decisions, that's the place.
Were you ever in the Air Force?
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pilotguy2017
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by pilotguy2017 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:01 pm

The airline world is awful, it keeps getting worse, I'm a 705 driver and I'm looking at my options to get out of it. All the brain childs in airline management can keep their cadets, I am seeing too many dangerous things to want to stay or end up associated with the first airline that has a major accident with hull loss and loss of life in Canada. My two cents.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by MrTurbine » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:08 am

B208 wrote:Air Force. You want to make decisions, that's the place.

Oh yes. Basic will fix his attitude too :)
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by B208 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:56 am

Rockie wrote:
B208 wrote:Air Force. You want to make decisions, that's the place.
Were you ever in the Air Force?

Currently.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Rockie » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:20 pm

B208 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
B208 wrote:Air Force. You want to make decisions, that's the place.
Were you ever in the Air Force?

Currently.
What do you do in the Air Force?
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by North Shore » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:32 pm

If this ^ is going to turn into another Rockie/B208 love-in: :smt014 , then please drop it right now...
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Rockie » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:04 pm

I'm just curious, won't be any fight from me. Having been in the Air Force and a Captain in the airlines I can't see any discernible difference between my authority and decision making responsibilities in civilian aviation versus my life in the military. I was simply curious what B208 is doing that he does.

The lack of decision making that concerns the OP is the factor here, which is an odd thing to say since the PIC is ultimately and solely responsible for the safety every flight. That requires a lot of decision making.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by livinlife » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:57 pm

.
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Last edited by livinlife on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by KAG » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:22 am

Eugene_goostman wrote:Being gone over half the month. Low to moderate pay to start. Eventually make good money but then you are married to your company. Hanging out with people you barely know. Hotels suck. Flying is pretty boring if you are honest. Eating out sucks. I liked things better when I was a 703 pilot and actually flew airplanes and made decisions besides how I want my coffee.

Should I get out of the airlines and go back? Is there another line of work such as corporate that is okay or does that suck as well?
Hey you could go to university, get 40K in debt, have crappy job prospects, then get said job and rot sitting behind a desk with no view. Work 5 days a week, while commuting 2+ hours because you can't afford to live near you work. You hate your job, lets be honest, but you enjoyed yourself in high school and all you had to worry about was what to wear and you which party to attend.

Now to be serious, No you shouldn't. I was in your shoes 11 years ago. I HATED my life at Jazz and damn near quit to go back up north. A venue change was what was needed. Now WJ is just a job, a good one that affords me to enjoy myself outside of work, not be defined by me being a pilot. There are pro's and cons in every aspect of life, sounds like you need to find some hobbies.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by gtanorth » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:36 am

lownslow wrote:
Eugene_goostman wrote:Being gone over half the month. Low to moderate pay to start. Eventually make good money but then you are married to your company. Hanging out with people you barely know. Hotels suck. Flying is pretty boring if you are honest. Eating out sucks. I liked things better when I was a 703 pilot and actually flew airplanes and made decisions besides how I want my coffee.
You should take this attitude on the road and do a speaking tour of all this country's 703 operators...
Nothing stops you from going back!
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by B208 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:39 am

Rockie wrote:I'm just curious, won't be any fight from me. Having been in the Air Force and a Captain in the airlines I can't see any discernible difference between my authority and decision making responsibilities in civilian aviation versus my life in the military. I was simply curious what B208 is doing that he does.

The lack of decision making that concerns the OP is the factor here, which is an odd thing to say since the PIC is ultimately and solely responsible for the safety every flight. That requires a lot of decision making.
I am a pilot and I enjoy the officership aspects of the job. If one picks their secondary duties, (OpsO, UFSO), or takes advantage of other opportunities, (ALO, etc...) there is plenty of opportunity to exercise your decision making skills; It's somewhat like being a management pilot at AC from what I'm told. Depending on the community you wind up in, you may be making a lot more decisions than your civil counter parts. For example, ATG requires its crews to do quite a bit of planning and decision making WRT mission accomplishment; This is the sort of thing that dispatch would take care of in an airline. I can't speak for the other communities because I have limited exposure. Perhaps some MAG, FTR or TACHEL guys would like to chime in.
Having been in the Air Force and a Captain in the airlines I can't see any discernible difference between my authority and decision making responsibilities in civilian aviation versus my life in the military
Just curious; I know you were a fighter guy; Are you saying taking an A320 from CYYZ to CYVR is on par with taking a CF188 (operationally) into Kosovo in terms of decision making while in flight? I have no exposure to either, so I'll accept your call on the matter.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by Rockie » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:42 pm

B208 wrote:Are you saying taking an A320 from CYYZ to CYVR is on par with taking a CF188 (operationally) into Kosovo in terms of decision making while in flight?
Depends on the day really. While no one is shooting at you there are no shortage of threats and planning involved in the safe execution of a flight going for instance to YYT late on a crappy winter night. As I said, the PIC is solely responsible for deciding what's safe, what isn't safe, and when to bail out. There are mostly routine flights and some not so much, same as flying fighters.

Point taken on the secondary duties of which I've done my share. Although I had input I can't say I was a major decision maker on standing war plans or NBCW policy though. Planning deployments was fun though and could be a lot of work, but then again so is taking the kids to Disney World.
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Re: Working for airlines sucks what else should I look into

Post by share-once » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:43 pm

I had a few times that I was VERY unhappy with my job. Every time it turned out I was relativizing it the wrong way. Sense of entitlement. Time later, months, maybe years, it turns out I was wrong (don't tell my wife-she still believes I am always right)
Every job you will run into yourself after a few years. Get a dog, cat, lease dog, get a life. There is a lot of joy in crop dusting, or float flying in the NWT, or even airline flying, but it's still just a job.
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