rent a 172 in Vancouver to fly to SFO or LAS?

[geneticistx]

What are the details as to where to rent from, the cost, anything else, to rent a plane in Vancouver to fly to vegas or san fran?
Insurance, etc? I think Langley rents out their 172 for extended weekends??

Tried the search thingamajigg, nothing really came back

tx

[cncpc]

What are the details as to where to rent from, the cost, anything else, to rent a plane in Vancouver to fly to vegas or san fran?
Insurance, etc? I think Langley rents out their 172 for extended weekends??

Tried the search thingamajigg, nothing really came back

tx

It used to be cheaper to drive to Seattle and get a US certificate based on your Canadian license at the FSDO and rent from the many places in the Seattle area. Plus, it saves you the eAPIS hassle. I did some checking and quite a bit more expensive for rental.

As a non member at Pacific Flying Club you can rent a 172P for 147 an hour. Canadian. The one place I checked around Seattle was pricing 172s at 165 US an hour, so around 230 Canadian. Just doesn't sound right, but that is the way it is now.

Where are you from and what is your experience level. Did you train in mountains?

[PilotDAR]

Where are you from and what is your experience level. Did you train in mountains?

An important theme! The suggested routes, though beautiful, are not for the faint of heart, low experience pilot. And, though I have flown airplanes which were new to me through those areas, in each case, I equipped myself with a lot of navigation and survival equipment.

If you're experienced, and prepared to equip yourself, the trip has merit. On the other hand, if you're low time eager, and hoping to just jump in and go, without the additional effort and expense of assuring you're well equipped, I suggest reviewing your expectations...

[tommywcom]

I just returned from KLAS last week. And I did a non-stop flight to KSFO on Labour Day 4 months ago. Both in my Seneca.

PilotDAR is right - the terrain between here and there is rugged. Going to LAS you will have to cross the Sierra Nevada. To the SFO area, you have the option of hugging the coastline with lots of airports on the way to land if needed.

To rent a 172 for these locations, you will have to do both a US checkout and mountain checkout. And will have to pay a 3-4 hr overnight minimum for each 24 hrs you have the plane. Excluding the checkouts and overnight minimums, you're looking at close to $2000 round trip just for the SFO trip.

But no one says general aviation is practical anyway.

The experience will be awesome and you will be learning lots on the way.

[geneticistx]

I am currently taking my PPL with the hope of getting it by end of may or June. Flying down the coast somewhere is something ive always wanted to do, and vegas is also a spot I'd loke to go in a GA aircraft.

I am transferring from Ontario to the Vancouver (PFC) - (now considering YSE) in about a month, so hopefully i'll get some mountain training as well.

If not this year, then next year a flight down to the strip is a goal.

M

[CpnCrunch]

I just returned from KLAS last week. And I did a non-stop flight to KSFO on Labour Day 4 months ago. Both in my Seneca.

PilotDAR is right - the terrain between here and there is rugged. Going to LAS you will have to cross the Sierra Nevada. To the SFO area, you have the option of hugging the coastline with lots of airports on the way to land if needed.

To rent a 172 for these locations, you will have to do both a US checkout and mountain checkout. And will have to pay a 3-4 hr overnight minimum for each 24 hrs you have the plane. Excluding the checkouts and overnight minimums, you're looking at close to $2000 round trip just for the SFO trip.

But no one says general aviation is practical anyway.

The experience will be awesome and you will be learning lots on the way.

Daily mins depend on the club. I've never heard of a US checkout, but perhaps it depends on the club. AFAIK Victoria Flying Club only has daily mins in summer, and they don't have any "US checkout".

Off topic, but how much does annual maintenance and insurance cost for your Seneca?

[tommywcom]

I hear ya, geneticistx. This was my third time landing and taking off at KLAS. It never gets old

Every time during departure off runway 01/19 (closet to the strip) heading back out west, Las Vegas Departure had us crossing and flying right over the strip at 1500 feet. That's priceless.

[tommywcom]

I just returned from KLAS last week. And I did a non-stop flight to KSFO on Labour Day 4 months ago. Both in my Seneca.

PilotDAR is right - the terrain between here and there is rugged. Going to LAS you will have to cross the Sierra Nevada. To the SFO area, you have the option of hugging the coastline with lots of airports on the way to land if needed.

To rent a 172 for these locations, you will have to do both a US checkout and mountain checkout. And will have to pay a 3-4 hr overnight minimum for each 24 hrs you have the plane. Excluding the checkouts and overnight minimums, you're looking at close to $2000 round trip just for the SFO trip.

But no one says general aviation is practical anyway.

The experience will be awesome and you will be learning lots on the way.

Daily mins depend on the club. I've never heard of a US checkout, but perhaps it depends on the club. AFAIK Victoria Flying Club only has daily mins in summer, and they don't have any "US checkout".

Off topic, but how much does annual maintenance and insurance cost for your Seneca?

I'm actually a member of PFC and I just flew their 172 last week - ie. the same flying club the OP plans on flying with. They do have a US checkout. As for daily minimums - I agree, it varies even within the club itself and depends on a lot of things.

My lowest annual on the Seneca was $4K but that's with absolutely no squawk - which means the following year would be a bad one My worst year not including the initial one was $9K. Insurance is about $3K but I carry $3M "smooth" liability and full hull. But you know what? My hourly operating expense is still less than the club rental rate so I can't complain

[CpnCrunch]

I'm actually a member of PFC and I just flew their 172 last week - ie. the same flying club the OP plans on flying with. They do have a US checkout. As for daily minimums - I agree, it varies even within the club itself and depends on a lot of things.

It might be worth the OP phoning around the FTUs in the lower mainland to see what their policies are on daily minimums. It will potentially make a huge difference to the price.

I had a look at Pacific Flying Club's website, and it looks like the US "checkout" is just a seminar and a talk with an instructor to ensure you have the correct documentation:

http://www.pacificflying.com/sites/defa ... %20PFC.pdf

My lowest annual on the Seneca was $4K but that's with absolutely no squawk - which means the following year would be a bad one My worst year not including the initial one was $9K. Insurance is about $3K but I carry $3M "smooth" liability and full hull. But you know what? My hourly operating expense is still less than the club rental rate so I can't complain

That sounds fairly reasonable, although the Seneca I is a pretty straightforward aircraft. You mentioned before you were having issues with dispatch reliability. Is that still an issue with your Seneca, or did you get all the issues ironed out?

[tommywcom]

I'm actually a member of PFC and I just flew their 172 last week - ie. the same flying club the OP plans on flying with. They do have a US checkout. As for daily minimums - I agree, it varies even within the club itself and depends on a lot of things.

I had a look at Pacific Flying Club's website, and it looks like the US "checkout" is just a seminar and a talk with an instructor to ensure you have the correct documentation:

http://www.pacificflying.com/sites/defa ... %20PFC.pdf

My lowest annual on the Seneca was $4K but that's with absolutely no squawk - which means the following year would be a bad one My worst year not including the initial one was $9K. Insurance is about $3K but I carry $3M "smooth" liability and full hull. But you know what? My hourly operating expense is still less than the club rental rate so I can't complain

That sounds fairly reasonable, although the Seneca I is a pretty straightforward aircraft. You mentioned before you were having issues with dispatch reliability. Is that still an issue with your Seneca, or did you get all the issues ironed out?

I only came across the US checkout while at the club. With all the checkout requirements, I've actually never taken any of PFC's planes to the US nor the mountains. I figured I didn't need a 4th mountain checkout in my lifetime ... So you could be correct that the US checkout is just a seminar after all.

I have gotten all the AOG related issues addressed. It was definitely a learning process. The last time I was AOG'ed was more than a year ago. Since then I have learned to do some wrenching on my own with whatever repairs are permitted and carry lots of tools and some parts. Ironically I almost had to park it at the Shell FBO in Victoria a few months ago with my office staff in tow but in the end I DIY'ed a solution and got us going (and a legal one).

It probably helps that my AME doesn't let me get away with deferring maintenance items indefinitely. During my most recent annual, I had a vacuum pump and an electric fuel pump replaced. Mags overhauled. And a new fuel line fabricated. Among other things. It takes a lot to keep an old bird flying. Especially one with two of everything LOL.

As you know the rule of thumb is it's cheaper to rent than to own, unless one is flying a lot of hours to get into the sweet spot. And I believe PFC is non-profit. So the fact that their rental rate is higher than my operating cost means they must be doing similar maintenance and replacing various components as well. Which of course is what happens when you can get in, press the start button and it fires right away. And all squawks get addressed promptly.

BTW, the only reason I remain a member there is just in case my plane is down for maintenance for whatever reason, I am not grounded (I'm a realist). And if I haven't said it, PFC is a great place to either learn to fly or be a renter. They have the most number and variety of planes available or at least close to it. The young instructors come and go, but the management there is a class act.

[cncpc]

I am currently taking my PPL with the hope of getting it by end of may or June. Flying down the coast somewhere is something ive always wanted to do, and vegas is also a spot I'd loke to go in a GA aircraft.

I am transferring from Ontario to the Vancouver (PFC) in about a month, so hopefully i'll get some mountain training as well.

If not this year, then next year a flight down to the strip is a goal.

M

I have about 400-500 hours in my first two years of flying that was weekend flying Vancouver -clear customs- Redmond, Oregon, or Medford - Reno- SFO or Monterrey, back up I-5, sometimes up Napa Valley north to ocean at Crescent City up the Oregon coast to Astoria, then a beeline if possible for customs at Victoria or Vancouver.

The first trip I made I had 52 hours and a new licence the week before. Carb ice just below the cloud in the Bay, and ditched about a mile east of Coyote Point.

First off, forget Vegas. That is a bridge too far. Reno is the place and San Francisco is only two hours away. Weather can be a serious issue, as can get home itis if you have a job to get back to or the rental place wants their airplane back, but you read "in one piece" if you think that. There will be days when the weather is good on both sides, other when it is no good on one side and ok on the other, a variation of that where either northern or southern portions of a side are no good, and where it is shite on both sides, i.e. the front has just crossed the Cascades eastbound.

No matter how you do it, starting from Vancouver you have to cross the Cascades to get to Reno. Depending on the weather, you can cross sooner or later, or not at all. If you can't cross, then your destination is SFO and maybe back through Reno, or maybe just home. I always preferred doing Reno first, and doing the crossing from Portland direct to Redmond, Oregon (fuel), then Lakeview, Oregon (fuel) then to Reno. You are good at 7500 crossing to Redmond, after that, you over desert all the way to Reno. There are some hills sticking up. Reno is a great place. If you are going to SFO, plan to stop for fuel around Sacramento. If I remember its 4400 ASL. It's a long takeoff run in a 172 and a slow climb up towards Truckee. Don't cross those mountains if the 9000 foot winds are more than 20. There is some fierce turbulence on the western slope going down into the valley. You should be able to cross at 8500 if you pick your spots.

I'd suggest you find a 500 hour pilot to go with you on the first one. It is a great choice of route, but it can be challenging if you have a deadline to get back. Don't go into the SFO TCA. Concord, Livermore, or San Rafael in Marin County are all good places to leave a 172 and get in the rental car. If you take four, don't fly for more than 2.5. Your longest legs will be Lakeview-Reno or Klamath Falls Reno.

Get customs in Bellingham, or at the latest, Boeing Field.

If you are coming from Ontario without any mountain training, and planning on jumping in an airplane and heading down these routes, it might not end well for you.

[lhalliday]

Flying to the U.S. is a minor issue. I read up on it, flew to Bellingham, had coffee at Bellis Fair and flew back. The highlight was realizing it was my first full-stop landing at Abbotsford. Honourable mention to taking off from something that looked like a real airport squawking 1200. Seattle Radio gave me my code when I activated my flight plan. If it's not your plane U.S. Customs will want some documentation that you are authorized to take it out of Canada.

You need mountain training. Flying in the mountains is spectacular but you have to know what you're doing.

I did my mountain checkride at Langley and did the Finer Points of Mountain Flying down in California (flying around the Lake Tahoe area). I gave up trying to do a mountain checkride with PFC (if you're not a full-time CPL student it's effectively impossible) and bought my own plane. YMMV.

...laura

[tommywcom]

Flying to the U.S. is a minor issue. I read up on it, flew to Bellingham, had coffee at Bellis Fair and flew back. The highlight was realizing it was my first full-stop landing at Abbotsford. Honourable mention to taking off from something that looked like a real airport squawking 1200. Seattle Radio gave me my code when I activated my flight plan. If it's not your plane U.S. Customs will want some documentation that you are authorized to take it out of Canada.

You need mountain training. Flying in the mountains is spectacular but you have to know what you're doing.

I did my mountain checkride at Langley and did the Finer Points of Mountain Flying down in California (flying around the Lake Tahoe area). I gave up trying to do a mountain checkride with PFC (if you're not a full-time CPL student it's effectively impossible) and bought my own plane. YMMV.

...laura

Agreed with everything said. My first time doing the planning associated with clearing customs was a bit overwhelming. eAPIS and calling ahead to get landing rights. But it's not rocket science and it gets to be routine after a few tries. Now I clear directly at my destination - KSFO, KSJC, KOAK, etc. A couple of weeks ago I cleared at KSJC.

I'm very interested to hear about your experience re mountain checkout at PFC. As you know I'm a current member there. PM me if it's politically charged ...

[lhalliday]

I'm very interested to hear about your experience re mountain checkout at PFC. As you know I'm a current member there. PM me if it's politically charged ...

No politics, just an FTU who would really rather not deal with weekend warrior renters.

The only time you get the necessary weather minima is in the summer. Good luck on booking any time in the summer with the one or two instructors who are authorized to do mountain checkrides. Zero cooperation from PFC on making it happen. "Call me if somebody is available and the weather is good! I'll come out to the airport!"

I bided my time by doing a checkout and a few flights in the 172Rs (you'll find me in the logs for MAZ and PAK) - fast, big fuel tanks, excellent cross-country potential. But without the checkride I wasn't going any farther than Chilliwack.

I gave up. I walked.

...laura

[tommywcom]

I'm very interested to hear about your experience re mountain checkout at PFC. As you know I'm a current member there. PM me if it's politically charged ...

No politics, just an FTU who would really rather not deal with weekend warrior renters.

The only time you get the necessary weather minima is in the summer. Good luck on booking any time in the summer with the one or two instructors who are authorized to do mountain checkrides. Zero cooperation from PFC on making it happen. "Call me if somebody is available and the weather is good! I'll come out to the airport!"

I bided my time by doing a checkout and a few flights in the 172Rs (you'll find me in the logs for MAZ and PAK) - fast, big fuel tanks, excellent cross-country potential. But without the checkride I wasn't going any farther than Chilliwack.

I gave up. I walked.

...laura

After their fatal mountain checkout / dual mountain flight a few years ago, it's not surprising that they are now a bit gun shy about doing mountain checkouts. And the brand new G-1000 172S GBUD's incident (renter) in the mountains last year didn't help either. Of course you knew all of that already ...

I bought my Seneca for similar reasons - they weren't going to rent their Senecas to me as PIC which I don't blame them. So I bought my own and never looked back. But like I said I still fly at PFC and I might actually do the G1000 172S checkout when I have to get checked out again after 12 months. I'll see how much time I have then.

[geneticistx]

ive decided, as i put in another post, to do my training at YSE so i can learn mountain flying from the start, to negate having to bend my mind more after i get my ppl.

if anyone here from ybb or other places in GVR would like to grab a coffee when i get there in mid feb to talk about the community etc, id love it.

pm me.

thx