Wabusk Crash

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:35 pm

Someone who's dumb enough.

Hot Fuel · Post by **Hot Fuel** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:08 am

Hears what one of the passengers had to say...

http://www.wawatay.on.ca/index.php?modu ... 1&pid=1286

wingspan · Post by **wingspan** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:06 am

''Because of the remote location of the crash, Machete said the Transportation Safety Board will not attend the site as part of its investigation.''

Very interesting, why would they do that?

Canoehead · Post by **Canoehead** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:50 am

What a load of bull. Remoteness of the area? Give me a break. You can't get any more access to a crash site than that. At an airport serviced by a sked carrier.

This company needs to be investigated one way or another. Using the "remoteness" argument is pretty poor. An accident like this needs to be a field investigation, unless the TSB already knows exactly what happened. If the pilot says "yeah, I screwed up and had the wrong tank selected and it died", then that is pretty straightforward.

However, if I were in charge at TSB (or TC), knowing what I know about this company, I'd say "ok, but we're coming up anyway to check it out". At the same time I'd have the OPP guarding the scene.

I truly hope the people involved start screaming and yelling over this one. It shouldn't matter whether it happens in Kash or in Winnipeg or in Ottawa.

neechi · Post by **neechi** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:51 am

It's not uncommon when there are no fatals and the crash isnt near a large white population.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:57 am

Im with canoehead on this...sounds like a cop-out to me. More likely they dont want to spend a nite in the Kash Ramada Inn?

charlie_g · Post by **charlie_g** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:53 am

endless wrote:The old PA-31 sure wouldn't be climbing with 7pax on board with an engine out. I'd say this guy did a great job, or was really lucky.

I am assuming that PA31's are used for Part 135 ops in the US, which has pretty strict rules about performance in all phases of flight. How did the Navajo get certified if it won't climb with a load single-engine? Or is it a question of technique?

tree-top_willie · Post by **tree-top_willie** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:49 am

Single engine performance climb outs are predicated on nice new shiny engines, that are running within temp limits and of course within WB and c of g limits....weight is always a factor, especially in that area where standard weights are almost always on the conservative side..many a times I have flown with a full load on the old navajo with 7 pax using standard weights cause it worked on paper, the reality being I was probably over by a couple hundred lbs. I'm not saying this had anything to do with this crash, but in that area its the nature of the business......

Dash7nomad · Post by **Dash7nomad** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:25 pm

Geez Willie, do you welcome calls from transport.

Canoehead · Post by **Canoehead** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:17 pm

neechi wrote:It's not uncommon when there are no fatals and the crash isnt near a large white population.

Exactly my point. It shouldn't matter that there were no fatals. If the exact same scenario happened in Peterborough, I bet it would be a field investigation. Regardless, you can always look at the example of the 2 Caravans 2 years ago. Both fatal, one made the National for a night or two, the other was the top story for a week.

I find it funny that you can always hear "transport" callsigns flying into airports at lunchtime every day (ones with restaurants that is), but in over 3 years of flying all over the north of Ontario, I never heard them north of Timmins.

Again, this needs to be made an issue by the people of the coast.

Perhaps some TC or TSB people who frequent this forum could enlighten us with their thoughts.

tree-top_willie · Post by **tree-top_willie** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:48 pm

Dash7nomad,
Since when has it been against the regs to use standard pax weights? Do you really think that on the ramp at yat, zke, or wherever in -30 deg at o'stupid thirty, you are going to use anything but?? That does not go without saying common sense dictates the situation, you're not gonna use std female if all the women are linebackers...I will be the first to agree that standard weights do not reflect those of most people in northern communities, if anything, I am happy TC decided to increase them...my point is, that if you have say 7 or 8 pax that are even a little above the standard...it tends to add up

Dash7nomad · Post by **Dash7nomad** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:14 pm

Willie- I see your point. I've done quite a bit of flying up that way myself. My point is I would not admitt to taking off 200 over GTOW in reality or in any other sense.

Wabusk Crash

PA31 single engine