Government to Consider Random Alcohol testing for pilots

[Old fella]

However Canada needs compliant tax payers that choose socialism as a way of life.

That's me. I'll take our socialism over any republic or monarchy/dictatorship out there

Ummmm....Canada is a constitutional monarchy. Just saying......

Yes..... and in our 150th year it would have been nice to sever our constitutional ties to the British Crown. We(Canada) are old enough now do be done with the British and I imagine that feeling is mutual.

[727driver]

It appears the Emirates brainwashing machine is really good at their work. Convincing a Canadian expat that mandatory breathalyser testing before each flight is a perfectly acceptable way of managing the issue. While I understand there is a cultural difference in that part of world and the way laws are set up to control behaviour there are also different; a Canadian expat openly justifing a breathalyser policy greatly disrespects the sacrifices and hard work that Canadians have made to enshrine and protect our fundamental rights and freedoms for us. I believe mandatory breathalyser testing in Canada would be immediately challenged in our courts and not likely to pass a Charter test as it would be deemed an invasion privacy in the absence of suspicion of intoxication. If the courts would support this it would set a very dangerous precedent and bring our country to the brink of becoming a police state. Maybe acceptable in the middle East but never here. If you are an expat working in the middle East and traveling I assume with your Canadian Passport YOUR country is still the true north strong and FREE. Don't forget about that before you start potificating how having your employer sticking a tube down your throat before you fly is somehow ok and how quaint it is that we are standing up for our rights. That's something we are allowed to do here.

[mbav8r]

So, you're a whore that will put up with whatever invasive law thrown your way, as long as it pays well!
Do I have that right?

What are you talking about?

If working for top pay and living in the best accommodations one could wish for then I guess I was a whore, a very well paid one.

What invasive laws do you think I had to put up with?

Why do you think it pays so well in those countries? Hint, it has something to do with attracting pilots that are willing to compromise for money.

WTF are you talking about?

I never ever compromised ever, in fact I always had the best treatment one could ever wish for, because I worked for clients that could afford to pay the best.

Are you getting senile in your later years, you jumped in this discussion to defend complexintentions' position on mandatory breathalyzer testing, how it's ok because the money is good.
So WTF are talking about?

[Cat Driver]

I did not find mandatory alcohol testing any more intrusive than the mandatory pat downs and other B.S. one has to endure in this country at airports.

What kind of a thought process meekly submits the the security goons at an airport because they are checking to see if you are suicidal but get all bent out of shape about your rights if they ask to check you for alcohol impairment ?

[single_swine_herder]

You mean that the Security Screeners are taking liberties during the pat-down checks?

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... fbKjLVtw6Q

[727driver]

With all due respect, security screening of air crew is a consequence of filling gaps in security and is more window dressing than anything else. Our liquids and gel exemption is proof of that. I even set off the alarm after a hand swab on one occasion . It was a non event, checked my RAIC noted the time. See you later. If you can't trust your crews to operated millions of dollars worth of company assets responsibly and suspect everyone is guilty until they prove themselves innocent there is a deeper problem in culture of the company itself. There are safe guards to prevent events of intoxication while on duty from going too far without regreseing into a state of paranoid suspicion for all. That kind of culture is far more destructive and harder to fix.

[complexintentions]

It appears the Emirates brainwashing machine is really good at their work. Convincing a Canadian expat that mandatory breathalyser testing before each flight is a perfectly acceptable way of managing the issue. While I understand there is a cultural difference in that part of world and the way laws are set up to control behaviour there are also different; a Canadian expat openly justifing a breathalyser policy greatly disrespects the sacrifices and hard work that Canadians have made to enshrine and protect our fundamental rights and freedoms for us. I believe mandatory breathalyser testing in Canada would be immediately challenged in our courts and not likely to pass a Charter test as it would be deemed an invasion privacy in the absence of suspicion of intoxication. If the courts would support this it would set a very dangerous precedent and bring our country to the brink of becoming a police state. Maybe acceptable in the middle East but never here. If you are an expat working in the middle East and traveling I assume with your Canadian Passport YOUR country is still the true north strong and FREE. Don't forget about that before you start potificating how having your employer sticking a tube down your throat before you fly is somehow ok and how quaint it is that we are standing up for our rights. That's something we are allowed to do here.

I do not work at Emirates. I left there some time ago. The company I work for is in one of the most democratic countries in the world, and the policy - temporary, for three months - is a face-saving measure as a direct result of an expat pilot showing up to work extremely intoxicated. Sound familiar? Glass houses, anyone?

What does random alcohol testing have to do with how much you're paid? Who ever suggested that? I would have the same opinion if I was flying in Canada: that I'm not afraid to prove my fitness to fly, any time, any flight. Because you know what? I very well may be called on to do just that - prove my ability - with a challenge a little more difficult that taking 2 seconds to blow 0.00 in a breathalyser. Please: do elaborate on these "sacrifices and hard work" you've done to prevent this gross intrusion on your rights lol. Some specifics would be nice.

Methinks there are more than a few alcohol-abusing pilots who are instinctively afraid that their chances of being discovered would increase, and so are cloaking themselves in the argument of "freedom and enshrined rights". Well, it certainly fits with the entitled age we live in, I suppose. Hey, I grew up in Canada, worked in the industry there for many years, still have many friends in it - I know exactly how hard-drinking the pilot group is as a whole. I just find it amusing, a bit ironic, the pompous sermonizing about "remaining free" while you're standing there with your shoes off, getting groped by some clown while their buddy rifles through your bag, just so you can go to work. Ohhh-k.

But the greed/envy culture in Canada is insane. People who from their comments demonstrate an obvious ignorance of things beyond their borders, but with such strong opinions about everywhere and nowhere. Folks unfit to carry Cat Driver's shoes, hurling insults at him. Bizarro land. It really has become a tall-poppy society.

And sorry, but it's just over the top drama queen nonsense to state that random alcohol testing would "bring our country to the brink of becoming a police state". Such breathless rhetoric almost guarantees it WILL become reality. All it will take is one more drunk pilot incident and the public will go crazy. Get off your high horse. Canada is as, or more, corrupt as anywhere in the world - and I've seen more of the world than I care to. And don't try and wave the flag at me, when the elected Prime Minister of the country has openly said Canada is a "post-nationalist" country.

[Cat Driver]

It's hopeless trying to use logic and common sense with a lot of these Canadians Complex because they are brainwashed by their Government to meekly accept anything the government decides is best for them.

The best example of how screwed up Canada is the health care system, it is worst than third world.

[atphat]

It's interesting that you think pilots who oppose random testing oppose it because they are alcoholics and afraid to get caught.

[Cat Driver]

You don't think there are alcoholics flying for a living?

[atphat]

Not my point at all

[Cat Driver]

What is your point then?

I happen to believe there are still far to many alcoholics working in the industry who have not admitted they are addicted and therefore do not get cured....or quit flying.

[confusedalot]

umm........hey, I enjoy imbibing every once in a while........so do a lot of people I know.

The obvious trick is to know when to stop, before you show up for work, in a sober state. According to the rules.

Interesting this alcoholic thing, if you surf the net, you will find that, if, you drink, four units, in one session (one night), you, are, a, binge drinker, and therefore, and alcoholic.

No shit, look it up yourself.

four drinks..........

Should pilot's be required to have zero social life, be absolutely alcohol free, and be tea totalers?

Are airplane pilots machines, or do they belong to the human race, with all it's warts?

Just say'n

No, showing up for work drunk is not an option......

[Rockie]

I would have the same opinion if I was flying in Canada: that I'm not afraid to prove my fitness to fly, any time, any flight.

So then you wouldn't be afraid to have your car or your house searched any time either because you have nothing to hide. You also wouldn't mind being targetted for surveillance by your democratic state if you've done nothing wrong...right?

[Cat Driver]

As I understand alcoholism it is an addiction that gets progressively worse as your intake increases and can in some cases result in premature death.

Also medical science has found that some people are more prone than others to becoming addicted.

The line between social drinking and addiction can sometimes be difficult to identify.

I was addicted and for years convinced myself I was a social drinker, however I finally realised that I was addicted and had a choice to make, quit drinking and keep flying for a living or keep on drinking and quit flying.

Of course there were more considerations than flying that finally convinced me to seek medical help to quit drinking.

In my case I went to Schick Shadel Hospital in Seattle and fortunately it worked and I continued to fly for a living.

[Old fella]

I would have the same opinion if I was flying in Canada: that I'm not afraid to prove my fitness to fly, any time, any flight.

So then you wouldn't be afraid to have your car or your house searched any time either because you have nothing to hide. You also wouldn't mind being targetted for surveillance by your democratic state if you've done nothing wrong...right?

"Nothing to hide" is a scenario that won't work for me. I will not comply with requests for warrantless searches of my car or home or my person.

[Cat Driver]

Random alcohol testing for pilots before flying an airplane with passengers does not require a warrant.

If you do not wish to take the test that is your choice.

If you will be allowed to fly the trip after refusing to take the test may be another matter.

[Black_Tusk]

As I understand alcoholism it is an addiction that gets progressively worse as your intake increases and can in some cases result in premature death.

Also medical science has found that some people are more prone than others to becoming addicted.

The line between social drinking and addiction can sometimes be difficult to identify.

I was addicted and for years convinced myself I was a social drinker, however I finally realised that I was addicted and had a choice to make, quit drinking and keep flying for a living or keep on drinking and quit flying.

Of course there were more considerations than flying that finally convinced me to seek medical help to quit drinking.

In my case I went to Schick Shadel Hospital in Seattle and fortunately it worked and I continued to fly for a living.

So this is your justification that we all need to be prescreened before a flight?

[Cat Driver]

So this is your justification that we all need to be prescreened before a flight?

I have no part in the decision makng process for random testing, I am only commenting on what a pilots choice would be.

If there is a rule for random testing you have two choices.

Before you make any further comments on my motivation for posting my experience with alcoholism I wrote it to share my experience with addiction and the decision I made that allowed me to continue flying.

Random testing does take place in other countries and it is exactly that, random.

I have yet to meet a flight crew that were not impaired who refused the test.

[mbav8r]

There are many, too many drunk driving accidents that cause death or grave injury ruining the lives of all the people in their lives. There are check stops and and road side test, yet the problem still exist and doesn't seem to improve according to statistics.
Should all cars be equipped with a breathalyzer that locks out the ignition? Every single driver in the country will need to prove their fitness to operate a motor vehicle before doing so.
Recently, a bus driver was caught impaired at the end of his shift, obviously drinking on the job, are all bus drivers drunks who need to be monitored before going to work? How about if a couple more are busted, maybe then?
So, Complexintentions, you check in at your base and blow, now you're good to go. How does this stop you from downing a bottle of vodka at your hotel during the layover? Which is what happened in this most recent case. Should the airlines have people at every hotel, when we show up for or ride, we blow? Maybe the same system to unlock the ignition for all airplanes?
Where do we draw the line and what cost should the airlines or taxpayer bear for something, in my opinion is not a endemic problem?