Government to Consider Random Alcohol testing for pilots

[Cat Driver]

So Rockie if you are about to fly at an airport outside Canada where " RANDOM " alcohol / drug testing is common do you tell them your A Canadain with rights and refuse to take the test?

[confusedalot]

when in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you are not in Rome, no one says you have to live like a Roman.

[Rockie]

So Rockie if you are about to fly at an airport outside Canada where " RANDOM " alcohol / drug testing is common do you tell them your A Canadain with rights and refuse to take the test?

You know better than that. When you are in a country you are subject to that country's laws. As a Canadian however I would expect my government to come to come to my aid if there has been a gross violation of my rights under Canadian law. This wouldn't cross that bar though.

On the other hand if any foreigner comes to Canada they are entitled to the same rights we have because they aren't Canadian rights, they're human rights.

Isn't that wonderful?

[complexintentions]

Yes, the Canadian government has a wonderful track record standing up for human rights outside of its borders. lol

Not really germane to the topic at hand though - random alcohol testing in the workplace in Canada.

[Rockie]

Yes, the Canadian government has a wonderful track record standing up for human rights outside of its borders. lol

I don't disagree with this comment. While they've had their successes they've also been woefully inadequate. That's why I used the words "I expect", not "they will". I also used the words "gross violation" which random alcohol testing fails to rise to compared to summary conviction without due process and execution. You know...pick your battles.

[Cat Driver]

If you fly for Justin do you get free marijuana as part of your per- dimes?

[complexintentions]

I also used the words "gross violation" which random alcohol testing fails to rise to compared to summary conviction without due process and execution. You know...pick your battles.

Ok. Then what I don't understand is, if random alcohol testing fails to qualify as a gross violation outside Canada's borders, why is it considered one within them? (By the tin-foil hatters, at least).

If, as old fella believes, airline flight crew impairment is a non-issue, why the resistance to testing that would only prove that - if it were true?

The "it's an invasion of privacy" argument falls apart in the face of all the other checks pilots are subjected to. (For now, I'll leave the legal arguments to the lawyers - I am arguing logic, not law).

You are free to disagree with me, but if you can't at least see my point - that's on you.

[Rockie]

I also used the words "gross violation" which random alcohol testing fails to rise to compared to summary conviction without due process and execution. You know...pick your battles.

Ok. Then what I don't understand is, if random alcohol testing fails to qualify as a gross violation outside Canada's borders, why is it considered one within them? (By the tin-foil hatters, at least).

It's not, it's a violation - but hardly the worst. There are people and organizations though that view any violation of a person's rights as a slippery slope that must be treaded on very lightly and only with very carefully considered justification. That justification is measured against constitutional protections and granted only on a case by case basis.

You may have heard of them, they're called the Canadian judiciary.

[mbav8r]

Complex, if one pilot sneaks a bag of cocaine through security in his anus and it's discovered, should we all have to subject ourselves to an anal search before going to work? What if two pilots were discovered to have done this, does that mean it's a much bigger problem than we thought?
Would you strip down and bend over because your current country of residence decided to be temporarily extra vigilant?
Under your "logic" because we are already subjected to many inconveniences, what's one or two more.
I've been doing this a long time, as I'm sure you have, not once did I suspect or have reason to suspect the pilot I was working with was drunk.
There are checks and balances in place and your assertions that Canadian pilots are all hard drinkers is false and could amount to defamation!

[Cat Driver]

Complex, if one pilot sneaks a bag of cocaine through security in his anus and it's discovered, should we all have to subject ourselves to an anal search before going to work?

If as many pilots put cocaine up their anus as there pilots who put alcohol down their throats then maybe there would be reason for random searches.

Which one would you like best?

[Sidebar]

Getting back to the original topic, I think random testing is a good idea and will eventually happen in Canada. However, I'm not sure what it might look like.

The human rights aspect focusses on substance dependence as a disability requiring accommodation. The privacy aspect of random testing has not been ruled on by the courts sufficiently to establish a precedent one way or the other, but I think some safety sensitive industries have a strong case that random testing is a prudent measure to ensure the safety of the public.

The question then becomes, what is a safety sensitive industry? Aviation, sure. How about medicine, police, trucking, rail, and the list goes on?

How effective random testing can be is another issue. The US has had random testing in place for a long time, yet some pilots go up to 10 years or more before they are selected for testing.

There are many substances that can degrade performance in aviation, alcohol being only one. Cocaine and marijuana use have also been documented as contributing to accidents. If random testing is done, what do you test for?

[Mach1]

With a dearth of Canadian cases to consider, Brown looked at cases out of the U.S., U.K, and Australia for guidance in coming to a fit sentence for Miroslav Gronych.

Apparently, this is such a large problem that they had to search internationally for other incidents to even decide on a proper sentence. I think that world wide they found 3 cases but I can't find where I read that so I could be mistaken.

[Cat Driver]

And Canada elected a leader that really understands the priorities for a great country, he is teaching his boys to be feminists so they will avoid " toxic masculinity " I believe is what he said.

[Rockie]

There have been a few cases of “toxic masculinity” in the news recently. By your comment I take it you object to respecting women and pine for the good old days when you could drag them around by their hair.

[sanjet]

Given the arguments from reading this thread.

4000 people die yearly from texting and driving just in the US and the number is climbing. In Canada, there are more accidents from texting and driving than driving under the influence.

Shouldn't we put jail time for people that use cellphones at the wheel?!

[Jet Jockey]

Personally I have no problems with random alcohol or drug testing for this industry.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I’m all for it IF Members of Parliament are subject to random alcohol testing after they start their cars. Driving is just as safety sensitive as flying. Put up or shut up.
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

Given the arguments from reading this thread.

4000 people die yearly from texting and driving just in the US and the number is climbing. In Canada, there are more accidents from texting and driving than driving under the influence.

Shouldn't we put jail time for people that use cellphones at the wheel?!

YUP
Texting is the new drinking! At least the drinker is looking out the window!
Illya

[Mach1]

Personally I have no problems with random alcohol or drug testing for this industry.

Then I personally volunteer you to take all the tests for those of us that do have problems with legislative overreach.

[av8ts]

I have no problems with it either. Get rid of some of those guys ahead of me on the list