Parking Brake on the Runway
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Parking Brake on the Runway
Someone told me the other day that you never use the parking brake on an active runway. Anyone else heard of that?
-
- Rank 7
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:52 pm
- Location: Ontario
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Yes, I think I have vaguely heard of that before, something to do with extending the take-off roll a few thousand feet
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Except if you are flying a Chipmunk or Tiger Moth where the parking brake is your brake lever and provides differential braking with rudder in addition to being a parking brake ;)
Otherwise no .. bad idea.
Otherwise no .. bad idea.
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Why is it a bad idea?
It's not forbidden in my AOM or FOM or by government regulation.
It's not forbidden in my AOM or FOM or by government regulation.
-
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2083
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: The Lake.
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
…
Last edited by Just another canuck on Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Ever been given "position and hold?"
Why not?
Why not?
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
One of those old pilot's wives tales, mixed in with some stupid-stition. Somebody, once upon a time, must have had the parking brake stick on and it caused all sorts of issues. Yelling from the other seat, the tower, the chief pilot's office, etc.. So it was decreed from high above, that the parking brake was not to be used on an active runway, under penalty of death or worse. And that has been handed down from left seat to right seat, over and over again.
Have Pratts - Will Travel
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1311
- Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:14 pm
- Location: The Gulag Archipelago
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Thought the answer would be pretty obvious. Guess not. Guess nobody has ever had a parking brake stick on? Or freeze? There you are, on the active wearing a fresh set of goat horns.altiplano wrote:Why is it a bad idea?
It's not forbidden in my AOM or FOM or by government regulation.
Illya
Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then.
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
I should clarify that I'm not talking about some poorly maintained Cessna that sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Transport category aircraft.
But no, I've never had a parking brake stick. I would consider a parking brake that sticks unserviceable and MEL as such. Is this a common occurrence?
But no, I've never had a parking brake stick. I would consider a parking brake that sticks unserviceable and MEL as such. Is this a common occurrence?
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Never had that procedure. Never heard of that...
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
I did this once in YTS when I had to wait 15 mins for a clearance (Traffic landing on the other runway). Departed, realized after takeoff the parking brake didn't release completely, landed at our destination with the parking brake engaged on one side.
So yeah, no parking brake on the runway!
So yeah, no parking brake on the runway!
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Pratt X 3 wrote:One of those old pilot's wives tales, mixed in with some stupid-stition. Somebody, once upon a time, must have had the parking brake stick on and it caused all sorts of issues. Yelling from the other seat, the tower, the chief pilot's office, etc.. So it was decreed from high above, that the parking brake was not to be used on an active runway, under penalty of death or worse. And that has been handed down from left seat to right seat, over and over again.
Some old wives tales for you....combined fatalities between the two accidents.....50.
https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19800130-0
Narrative:
Takeoff attempted without releasing the parking brake the Falcon overran runway 18 came to rest in 25 feet of water about 300 feet from the departure end of the runway.
Probable Cause:
PROBABLE CAUSE: "The flightcrew's failure to release the parking brake before the takeoff roll was started, which resulted in significant wheel/brake drag and a nosedown pitching moment that inhibited the aircraft's capability to effect a normal acceleration and rotation for takeoff. Contributing to the accident was the lack of adequate company checklist procedures to insure the timely release of the parking brakes."
http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 19701127-1
Narrative:
The DC-8 operated on a flight for the Military Airlift Command (MAC) from Tacoma-McChord AFB to Cam Ranh Bay via Anchorage and Yokota. The aircraft failed to become airborne while trying to takeoff from Anchorage runway 06R and overran. It struck a wooden barrier, an ILS structure, a 12-foot deep drainage ditch and caught fire.
Probable Cause:
PROBABLE CAUSE: "The failure of the aircraft to attain the necessary airspeed to effect lift-off during the attempted takeoff. The lack of acceleration, undetected by the crew until after the aircraft reached V1 speed, was the result of a high frictional drag which was caused by a failure of all main landing gear wheels to rotate. Although it was determined that a braking pressure sufficient to lock all of the wheels was imparted to the brake system, the source of this pressure could not be determined. Possible sources of the unwanted braking pressure were either a hydraulic/brake system malfunction or an inadvertently engaged parking brake."
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Isolated accident... There's lots of things you can forget and we all know there's a couple accidents for just about every possibly in this industry...
I'm sure there's another one where the guy didn't set the brake and got distracted and started rolling and caused an incursion and accident on another runway or rolled into a ditch or something...
I've never had a parking brake stick on a 705 airplane I've flown... I've never forgot to take one off either after holding on position or setting it for an engine run-up in position...
I mean you really can't forget it on the Boeing - you know it's on because you don't move at 60-70% N1 when the brake is set... You probably don't move at full jam, but I've never tried...
I guess we didn't use them on the smaller planes because they just didn't work...
Parking brake is an important and useful piece of equipment.
I'm sure there's another one where the guy didn't set the brake and got distracted and started rolling and caused an incursion and accident on another runway or rolled into a ditch or something...
I've never had a parking brake stick on a 705 airplane I've flown... I've never forgot to take one off either after holding on position or setting it for an engine run-up in position...
I mean you really can't forget it on the Boeing - you know it's on because you don't move at 60-70% N1 when the brake is set... You probably don't move at full jam, but I've never tried...
I guess we didn't use them on the smaller planes because they just didn't work...
Parking brake is an important and useful piece of equipment.
-
- Rank 3
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:49 am
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
I've had to rescue a smaller aircraft that landed with the parking brake on, pilot denied departing with it on but it was certainly very firmly and effectively on when they landed. Scrubbed the main tires off completely in the incredibly short landing "roll", the brake held well enough the tires didn't turn at all even under that unexpected momentum application! Good thing the sidewalls were tall and thick enough he didn't grind the wheels off with the tires
Upon liberal application of some tongue relaxing fluids once the red colour faded from the pilots face, he admitted that he was bored during the routine cargo flight he had performed a hundred times that year already, and was playing with things in the cockpit He didn't specifically recall putting the brake on but he figured he must have during the flight. Oops!
Upon liberal application of some tongue relaxing fluids once the red colour faded from the pilots face, he admitted that he was bored during the routine cargo flight he had performed a hundred times that year already, and was playing with things in the cockpit He didn't specifically recall putting the brake on but he figured he must have during the flight. Oops!
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
I use it. I've been told not to use it and I've been told to use it. So, for me, it's pilots discretion.
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
Use it all the time when holding on the runway. There is a caution light, warning horn, and airmanship to keep me from taking off with it on
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
So you don't change for an isolated incident. Two 747's crashing in Tenerife was isolated, after all, something like this rarely happens. But was enough for this....altiplano wrote:Isolated accident... There's lots of things you can forget and we all know there's a couple accidents for just about every possibly in this industry...
I'm sure there's another one where the guy didn't set the brake and got distracted and started rolling and caused an incursion and accident on another runway or rolled into a ditch or something...
I've never had a parking brake stick on a 705 airplane I've flown... I've never forgot to take one off either after holding on position or setting it for an engine run-up in position...
ICAO-rules state that:
"the word "Take-Off" is only used when an aircraft is cleared for take-off, or when cancelling a take-off clearance. At other times the word "Departure" or "Airborne" is used." DOC 9432 "Manual of Radiotelephony" 2.8.3.3 (many countries deviate from ICAO-standards).
Maybe the parking brake issues were isolated incidents because enough guys just don't do it anymore.
Some more isolated accidents/incidents...
http://aerossurance.com/safety-manageme ... excursion/
https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20110216-0
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _03-11.pdf
https://www.fss.aero/accident-reports/d ... -04-US.pdf
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
But how else will I manage a sweet powerslide exit onto the next taxiway to impress all the ladies?!
Re: Parking Brake on the Runway
+1 to what altiplano and av8ts said.
C'mon people.
C'mon people.