Manitoba Medevac

[Phlyer]

..and yet the companies will end up paying far more to hire and train new pilots when people get sick and tired and leave.
Plus ca change....

[iflyforpie]

They need to do it like BC.

Newer planes (mine is less than ten years old), shifts (12 hours scheduled, up to 14 or 15 only for high acuity, most days going home at 1700). Non acute calls can be refused if it involves going over 12 hours back to home base. 4/4 with 15 GDO. Rolling duty day and min rest are foreign terms. One day a month on average not sleeping in my own bed.. and good hotels (even great ones.. I’ve got the Fairmont YVR and and the Hotel Grand Pacific in Victoria) and since the medics usually have to go in to the hospital the next day is often sleeping in until 9 or later and a write off day or maybe a repat and then restock going home at 5.

Two dedicated night crews for the whole province out of Vancouver—swing shift for those that do them, the rest of us lucky bastards fly only days (only 150TT night after three years of flying... mostly last flight of the day during Standard Time).

Refuse a trip for any reasons. Even if it’s legal to do but there are other factors. We were down for two days last block because of the extreme cold. They didn’t want to transport patients in -40 and with snowmaggedon in Vancouver and neither did we.

And after all that, . .’s quote still stands. Nobody has died because of my decision not to fly.

However... most pilots are looking to join the rat race, not looking for lifestyle.

The day bases are having a bit of trouble attracting and keeping FOs because of the high requirements and lack of advancement opportunities (pretty much all us captains are staying put) and Vancouver is always looking for pilots because of the high cost of living and the night flying, so it’s not a long term position for most people.

[mmm..bacon]

It's funny, LifeFlight in Manitoba used to be set up that way, but the government disbanded it, and went back to the 'old style' of doing things..

pie, it seems that we are co-workers. Y'all in LW do seem to have it pretty jammy!

[iflyforpie]

It's funny, LifeFlight in Manitoba used to be set up that way, but the government disbanded it, and went back to the 'old style' of doing things..

pie, it seems that we are co-workers. Y'all in LW do seem to have it pretty jammy!

I’m in Prince George with NT Air.. not Kelowna.

[mmm..bacon]

Ah (ass...u...me)

[flyinhigh]

Just to clarify one aspect, the rolling duty day in Manitoba was abolished with the last Perimeter shut down.Prior to this, all operators ran a 14 hour shift followed by rest period which is what Perimeter now does.

[co-joe]

I flew medevacs in MB but too long ago for my experience to be relevant, but I do have recent AB and BC health experience, and what I heard from medics that worked out east scares me.

Specifically that your company doesn't get paid unless you get in. If you turn down a flight due to wx, the dispatch just keeps calling operators until someone is willing to go try. That shit doesn't happen out west. Operators and Pilots, get well paid no matter what, and if a company turns down a trip due to wx, the flight is cancelled and the patient either goes by ground, or doesn't go. Period.

Is it really as bad as it sounds, wrt pressure to "get in", in MB and ON?

[digits_]

As far as I know, in MB the operator gets paid for every mile the airplane flew. Doesn't matter if you get in or not, or try and return after 10 minutes. So no pressure that way.

Obviously it doesn't look good if you make 10 attempts to milk the system and don't make it in on any...

[Capt. Underpants]

Is it really as bad as it sounds, wrt pressure to "get in", in MB and ON?

It's been a while, but my company was given an evening trip to an airport in northern Ontario (can't recall which one now) to pick up a patient and fly them to Toronto. It was late winter. We checked weather and NOTAMs, saw nothing of concern and off we went. Someone answered the UNICOM and gave us the winds and altimeter. We saw the airport from far back and lined up for a visual approach. As we got closer, in our landing lights I spotted an aircraft that appeared to be sitting at or near the far end of the runway. Unsure of its' exact position, I went around. I sidestepped to have a look and confirmed it was sitting past the far end in the snow. We enquired on the UNICOM, and only then did the person confirm that the aircraft had slid off an ice covered runway. They had landed a few hours earlier after a line of freezing rain passed through. We then asked about the current runway condition and were told, "It's still pretty slippery".

Gee, thanks alot. We diverted to Timmins and eventually went back home without the patient. We later learned that MEDCOM was well aware of the prior incident (it was their first attempt to retrieve the patient) but chose not to pass that info along when they dispatched us.

[co-joe]

...
Gee, thanks alot. We diverted to Timmins and eventually went back home without the patient. We later learned that MEDCOM was well aware of the prior incident (it was their first attempt to retrieve the patient) but chose not to pass that info along when they dispatched us.

Jesus...Imagine having to ask dispatch if anyone else has crashed there yet today as part of your call for every flight? Mind boggling.

[Capt. Underpants]

Jesus...Imagine having to ask dispatch if anyone else has crashed there yet today as part of your call for every flight? Mind boggling.

I also neglected to mention that the other operator never reported their little mishap to the proper authorities (and no one was surprised).

[welcome aboard]

Ok, so on the rolling duty day thing...
The worst thing about this is that TC has recently amended the flight and duty regs. 2 points worth noting...medevacs whined the loudest and are now exempt from most of the changes...and the people who wrote these regs didn't understand the "ins and outs" of the rules and therefore didn't fix what was broken the in rules in the first place with respect to "on call" and "reserve". Nearly all medevacs are "on call" in that they are required to report within 1 hour for duty. Ever notice that the regs for airlines (on reserve) have way more restrictions and limitations...yet these guys are by law required to get more notice? Makes no sense and the same crap lives on in the new rules. I'm not sure what you mean by "rolling duty day" but that may or may not be compliant with the CARs. In 703 flight and duty there isn't much to go on.

[confusedalot]

Stumbled on this thread out of curiosity since, well also stumbled into a medevac 14 on 14 off retirement gig (no joke, I got called out of the blue from a guy who knew a guy, blah blah)

I have to say that you guys seem to have it rough in Manitoba sadly, over here, easy peasy. In order to NOT put pressure on the crew, they won't even tell us the state of the patient on callout so that we do not get "influenced" in our decisionmaking. We call the shots and nobody interferes. Around here, easy flying, LPV approaches into paved, lighted, PAPI and approach light equipped strips.

But of course, there are some irritants, mostly minor non safety related stuff.

Hope things improve in Manitoba, I'll be browsing here to keep up to date.

[Captain Kelly]

It's still the friggin "wild west" in Manitoba ! Glad I got out even with 14 on off and 75K a year, rolling duty daze, crew housing 25 min drive from airport and a 55 min wheels up time. Things are only going to get worse as the government adds more contractors as the competition will increase performance demands and it will only stop when a king air is in pieces. Then the RPF will be awarded with duty days modeled responsibly realistically understanding the the CARs duty time is the MAXIMUM TIME a pilot can work, not a standard. Employers and contracting governments need to take into account the accumulative effects of fatigue and not just 2 weeks off to reset.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Phlyer]

Thank you everyone for your words.
This industry still has a long way to go to get to respectability.

[goingnowherefast]

it will only stop when a king air is in pieces.

Not even sure about that. Nobody cares about a king air, 2 pilots a medic and a sick person. Start putting articles in the paper about a medivac plane crashing once a month and things might change then. Pilots need to turn down trips due to fatigue and tell their boss to go @#$! themselves. Bit of a long stretch, but it would be great to see a MB Medivac Pilot Association. I'm sure you could get some other provinces to join in too. Collectively stand up to the shit. Airines got better duty regs 'cause of ALPA, ACPA and lobbying money. Nobody stands up for medivac pilots, just the operators screaming costs and @#$! safety.

[iflyforpie]

I think you’re more likely to see a McDonalds organizing.

Not to say that it won’t happen (I believe it did in Squamish in the 90s) but truth is nobody is around long enough to do so. The people that start are desperate for hours and the people who feel the effects and want it to change simply leave.

[digits_]

it will only stop when a king air is in pieces.

Not even sure about that. Nobody cares about a king air, 2 pilots a medic and a sick person. Start putting articles in the paper about a medivac plane crashing once a month and things might change then. Pilots need to turn down trips due to fatigue and tell their boss to go @#$! themselves. Bit of a long stretch, but it would be great to see a MB Medivac Pilot Association. I'm sure you could get some other provinces to join in too. Collectively stand up to the shit. Airines got better duty regs 'cause of ALPA, ACPA and lobbying money. Nobody stands up for medivac pilots, just the operators screaming costs and @#$! safety.

Plenty of king airs have ended up off runways, with a variety of damage. Nobody cares unfortunately.

[fish4life]

If Keewatin joins ALPA, you will have the majority of the medevac for Manitoba and Nunavut under one union that’s a start.

[flyinhigh]

Keewatin does very little to zero Manitoba medevac.

They are also unionized, however I do not know with who.

If Keewatin joins ALPA, you will have the majority of the medevac for Manitoba and Nunavut under one union that’s a start.