My First ILS to minimums

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FAD3C
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by FAD3C »

Black_Tusk wrote:
Zaibatsu wrote:How many of you have flown from the marker to DH by hand?
I'm going to gather that many have. Fly a piston twin, B1900, Metro etc up north? ILS's, LPV's to minimums in winter every day with no flight director, A/P and on steam guages (well maybe the B1900 and Metro may have F/Ds).
+1. Did that very same approach on Jetstreams with no AP or FD. ILS's and LPV's to mins is daily bread up north specially during the fall months.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by ogc »

Black_Tusk wrote:
Zaibatsu wrote:How many of you have flown from the marker to DH by hand?
I'm going to gather that many have. Fly a piston twin, B1900, Metro etc up north? ILS's, LPV's to minimums in winter every day with no flight director, A/P and on steam guages (well maybe the B1900 and Metro may have F/Ds).
I spent years doing that myself along with hundreds of others.

Hell a lot of the time we flew them without an HSI

I do not remember ever seeing anyone that far off centre when we got to the bottom, but that's just my experience.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Maynard »

Black_Tusk wrote:
Zaibatsu wrote:How many of you have flown from the marker to DH by hand?
(well maybe the Metro may have F/Ds).
Haha.

You're funny.

Nice first ILS.
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Cat Driver
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Cat Driver »

We flew all the time by hand for decades, because the airplanes did not have an autopilot.

I have over five thousand hours in DC3's and of all the DC3's I flew only one had an autopilot.

Hand flying in IMC is not black magic.

I think the first big airplane I flew that had an an autopilot was the DC6 that North West Territorial Airways owned.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

dirtdr wrote:

I dump full flaps upon sight of the runway. In this case I touched down 1500feet down a 10,000ft runway. A little longer than I would have liked, but...
With a long runway my feeling is don't mess with success. If I was on a nice stable descending flight path to the DH then that flight path is going to get you to the thousand foot marker without having to do anything. Changing the configuration by going to full flap after DH makes it a lot harder to keep the flight path stable, just start coming back on the power as soon as you are sure you have the visual references and add a little up trim. You will find you will almost be at the landing attitude and all you need to do to land is a slight flare and close the throttles.

This method works especially well for those foggy night landings.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Rockie »

I hate to pour vinegar into the wine, but it looks to me in the video like the lights weren't visual until the 5 bar lights were in sight, which only begin halfway down the approach lights that are themselves only about 2600 feet long. When they were sighted a 15 degree bank turn was intiated towards them, and when the runway itself became visual the aircraft was still to the left of the left hand side of the runway. I'm not a math whizz, but that to me is more than full scale deflection of the localizor which requires a go-around if you're still IFR.

Granted, this is a video and may not be representative of what the pilot actually saw out the window, but the bank towards the lights didn't begin until they were visible in the video. It also required a 10 degree bank turn almost in ground effect to correct back to runway heading. I admit I am not proficient in those kinds of airplanes and haven't been for a long time, so it may very well be that this was a safe visual segment after an instrument approach.

However instrument limits I do understand, and this was an ILS which is supposed to be a precision approach, not a non-precision approach. When you reach minimums you are supposed to be at the correct point in space and on the correct tragectory to complete a safe landing with minimal corrections which I would argue is not the case here.

I'm not judgeing, but I would encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Chuck Finley »

Rockie wrote: I'm not judgeing, but I would encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.

At least he put it on the RWY not before!
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Rockie »

. Finley wrote:
Rockie wrote: I'm not judgeing, but I would encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.

At least he put it on the RWY not before!
So you disagree?
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Cat Driver »

I'm not judgeing, but I would just encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.

In defence of the poster he did say it was his " first " approach and landing at IFR limits so he has a good benchmark to start polishing his skills.

Once again I have looked at the video several more times and see nothing unsafe about the handling of the airplane and his corrections were quite smooth and effective.

Rockie do you not have spell check?
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Cat Driver »

Delete
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Rockie »

Cat Driver wrote:
I'm not judgeing, but I would just encourage the OP to polish his skills and not accept errors like this.

In defence of the poster he did say it was his " first " approach and landing at IFR limits so he has a good benchmark to start polishing his skills.

Once again I have looked at the video several more times and see nothing unsafe about the handling of the airplane and his corrections were quite smooth and effective.

Rockie do you not have spell check?
I'm just offering advice so his second approach isn't also his last Cat, do you have anything to add to that? Also I've admitted I'm not proficient in those airplanes and it may have been safe, but not in compliance with IFR limits which are in place to ensure safety. If you wish to accept those kinds of errors in your own flying that's one thing, but it shouldn't be accepted by anybody else.

Do you really want to get into a tit for tat about spelling? I'd be happy to if you are...
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Cat Driver »

At least he put it on the RWY not before!
And it was the runway, not a taxiway.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by av8ts »

Does every thread really need to be about Air Canada. I stopped reading the SFO thread about 5 pages ago because I got sick of the same back and forth. Please don't start it here
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by confusedalot »

Forgive me, it has been since 1985 that I have flown a light twin. I forgot. So, what is the ''blue line'', the single engine safe speed, on a cessna 310. Only asking since as I recall, this would be the regular approach speed.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Chuck Finley »

av8ts wrote:Does every thread really need to be about Air Canada. I stopped reading the SFO thread about 5 pages ago because I got sick of the same back and forth. Please don't start it here

Actually you are the first one to bring up Air Canada.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by av8ts »

No actually you were
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Chuck Finley »

av8ts wrote:No actually you were
Where did I mention AC?
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Rockie »

. Finley wrote:
av8ts wrote:No actually you were
Where did I mention AC?
Don't be obtuse.
. Finley wrote:At least he put it on the RWY not before!
The last thing I want is for this to turn into anything but a discussion about the original subject. There seems to be an acceptance of this approach as normal, when in my opinion it is not. There was a significant correction required on a precision approach to make the runway. That's not supposed to be required on a precision approach. My purpose for interjecting is so neither the OP or anybody else would think this was a normal approach transition to a landing...it wasn't. More accuracy is demanded in instrument flying.

It has nothing to do with AC so please let's leave that out of it.
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Last edited by Rockie on Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by Chuck Finley »

Speculation at best.
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Re: My First ILS to minimums

Post by BTD »

I'd like to buy an argument please.
Zaibatsu wrote:

How many of you have flown from the marker to DH by hand?
:lol: Many times. Just like lots of other posters here.
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