Pathetic Pearson Airport

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Rudy
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by Rudy »

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
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DonutHole
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by DonutHole »

Rockie wrote:Politics 101

Influence isn't the same as power. It isn't even the same as a coalition government. While it is mandatory for the right wing to blame the left for everything, blaming the Greens and NDP for Pearson is laughable.
Influence is the same as power if you use it to leverage the majority into the minority position. Do you think before you comment?
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dashx
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by dashx »

Wow.......and I thought it was hard enough just trying to get to the airport (you know construction on airport rd and hwy 427....non stop traffiic on hwy 401 409 410 and 427). Walking is the last thing I worry about in the terminals.

When you bitch dont forget the tunnel to the T3 extension .......
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DrSpaceman
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by DrSpaceman »

Both escalators not working to get down to customs yesterday at T3... saw an old man almost fall all the way down.

Honestly if I don’t see around 50% of equipment broken it’s a good day. Makes you wonder where all those airport fees go to.
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Rockie
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by Rockie »

DonutHole wrote:
Rockie wrote:Politics 101

Influence isn't the same as power. It isn't even the same as a coalition government. While it is mandatory for the right wing to blame the left for everything, blaming the Greens and NDP for Pearson is laughable.
Influence is the same as power if you use it to leverage the majority into the minority position. Do you think before you comment?
Influence is not absolute - power is.
People with influence don't make the decisions - people with power do.

In reference to this thread it's impossible to see how the NDP or Green's have ever had any "influence" of any kind, on any subject, in any area relating to Pearson airport and are therefore to blame for it as the person I was responding to seems to think. You're welcome to prove me wrong.

Do you think before you comment?
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pelmet
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by pelmet »

dashx wrote: Walking is the last thing I worry about in the terminals.
Same with most of us...but most of us realize that there are a lot of sick and elderly people that travel. They do worry about this kind of thing.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by HansDietrich »

Quick question:

Considering all the delays at YYZ, why would they close a runway for some "marathon" fund raiser? (Not to bash charity, but that can be done elsewhere in Toronto). How does that impact operations?
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Diomedea
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by Diomedea »

HansDietrich wrote:Quick question:

Considering all the delays at YYZ, why would they close a runway for some "marathon" fund raiser? (Not to bash charity, but that can be done elsewhere in Toronto). How does that impact operations?
It's an annual event (5k run/walk, not a marathon), and it's part of Pearson's public outreach activities. Lots of families attend, and they get to look at aircraft static displays, fire equipment, birds of prey that chase away wildlife, etc.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by HansDietrich »

Diomedea wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:Quick question:

Considering all the delays at YYZ, why would they close a runway for some "marathon" fund raiser? (Not to bash charity, but that can be done elsewhere in Toronto). How does that impact operations?
It's an annual event (5k run/walk, not a marathon), and it's part of Pearson's public outreach activities. Lots of families attend, and they get to look at aircraft static displays, fire equipment, birds of prey that chase away wildlife, etc.
Yes, I know that. I was asking about impact on operations / delays, etc.
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cossack
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by cossack »

Its held on a Saturday and 06R/24L is never part of a normal operation on a Saturday as historically there aren't the traffic numbers to require its use as part of a 3 runway configuration.
Dual runway, mixed mode is sufficient at all times except for the 35 departure push at 21:00, then there may be line ups. Having the third runway for that brief time would only be marginally beneficial and not worth adding extra staff to the whole shift for.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by flyinhigh »

The other day an Encore plane reported that they hit the blast of B-777 to which the controller responded, "get used to it, its going to be the new norm".

Personally, I am happy with this as Canada's spacing requirements I feel are way to much. With that, what exactly can we expect for spacing now? 4nm, 3 nm.

Also on the 24 operation. In my past experience, the same controllers ran the arrivals and landings for both 24's, meaning there was no extra staff required. I did mean more traffic movements, however in the past 6 months I have been back in YYZ, I have yet to use the south side. Why is this?
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Married a Canadian
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by Married a Canadian »

The other day an Encore plane reported that they hit the blast of B-777 to which the controller responded, "get used to it, its going to be the new norm".

Personally, I am happy with this as Canada's spacing requirements I feel are way to much. With that, what exactly can we expect for spacing now? 4nm, 3 nm.
Wake separation on arrival..Q400 behind a B777 would be 5 miles (Medium behind a heavy). The "new norm" is that there will be a LOT more heavies into YYZ, already we are seeing more due to the Rouge 767s, extra European flights (Air Portugal), and also all the extra flights to the far East/Dubai India (China Eastern, Southern, Hainan, Cathay, EVA, Philippine and the AC 787s).
We won't mess with wake spacing on arrival unless an aircraft will accept a visual following a heavy.
Out with wake separation, we can run 2.5 to 3 miles when jamming one runway.
Also on the 24 operation. In my past experience, the same controllers ran the arrivals and landings for both 24's, meaning there was no extra staff required. I did mean more traffic movements, however in the past 6 months I have been back in YYZ, I have yet to use the south side. Why is this?
Not sure what you mean by this, do you mean you haven't landed on 24L/06R? Or the south side in general ie 24R/06L.
If it is the first one, it just depends when we are able to do the triple operation, and Cossack has explained on numerous threads when this is possible and what is required.
If it is the second one (not being on 24R/06L), probably more to do with which direction you have come from when landing and whatever time of day it has been. We dual more often than not so it must have been when you are coming from the north in a dual, or in over IMEBA..where the default runway setting will be 23/05 (depending on balance).
I give props to the controllers that were working because they were slammed all day and did there best, but when you have cancelled flight after cancellled flight after one storm line passes, all because of staffing. Nav Canada should be embarrassed and the GTAA pissed that this world class hub is a joke.
Have to come back to this comment, because the lack of understanding from some of the flying community when weather goes through is unreal. I am no GTAA shrill, and they make a LOT of problems for themselves, but to b*** and complain about flow delays when there is OBVIOUS weather around is ignorant and has nothing to do with either NAV Canada or the GTAA.
Ask yourself next time that you want that left/right turn due to CBs when you are within 25 miles of Canada's busiest airport WHERE that puts you in the sky in relation to other traffic. When EVERY departure wants a turn for weather or the arrivals won't go past 15 mile final due to storms, or you don't want to make the turn at MAROD/VERKO due to build ups..etc....what options does that leave for ATC?
It is mentioned that the weather has "cleared" but we tend to find on the radar side of things that "cleared" still means pilots don't want to fly into build ups or the remnants of the storms and if we don't have "regular" arrival/departure routes...we can't run a regular operation. Also bear in mind that the enroute is having to do a LOT of clean up also after a line goes through, and they are probably still impacted by what has gone on before.
Flow happens on bad weather days.......flights get cancelled because crews end up out of position and hours. I understand that...but it is not due to ATC staffing nor any poor planning on the GTAAs part. Pretty sure the airlines and the GTAA WANT to run as high a rate as possible (believe me the tower and terminal are more than aware of this), but I am not going to apologise on NAV Canada's behalf for saying I don't want a 50 plus arrival rate before/during and after a thunderstorm.
I'm not going to argue this. It's what we've always been told "Nav Canada doesn't have enough controllers to keep Pearson going. Sure, on a nice day, when there are no issues, they can handle all the traffic, but throw in weather and the whole system is screwed
Throw in weather anywhere and the system is screwed. Unless you want to fly through a CB or thunderstorm that isn't going to change. The US airports just cancel flights..so we are already one up on them in weather. I get it is frustrating sitting on the ground...it costs your company time and money.....but blaming the GTAA and Nav Canada for these events is just plain wrong.
I know where NAV Canada can do better, and have been honest on ATC threads where there are times we have to hold our hands up. Delays during weather/construction/airshow...are not a stick to beat either the GTAA or Nav Canada with...we do a pretty good job in comparison to other airports that run the same traffic as us.
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by rookiepilot »

Airport is getting busier. Apart from constantly broken escalators, what I notice are washrooms that smell like an outhouse on a bad day. Many airports have people cleaning constantly. Why at Pearson is it every few hours (if that). No wonder Pearson is known as a toilet. Literally.

#2 is staffing (Catsa). Come in the other night, try to exit the international baggage area with about 500 other people at T1. 2, count em 2, Catsa folks checking everyone through. Who knows how many others standing around gabbing.

Massive, slow line. Unacceptable. I'm a busy guy and so are many other people. I hate, just hate, my time disrespected by sheer staff laziness. Do your job!

Get far better service in any number of developing countries.
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7ECA
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by 7ECA »

rookiepilot wrote: Massive, slow line. Unacceptable. I'm a busy guy and so are many other people. I hate, just hate, my time disrespected by sheer staff laziness. Do your job!

Get far better service in any number of developing countries.
Maybe we can have a special express line for people who are ever so pleasant, and constantly in a rush - you know the most important people, not just all the peons like the rest of us. Would that work best for you, Mr. Important?
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by rookiepilot »

7ECA wrote:
rookiepilot wrote: Massive, slow line. Unacceptable. I'm a busy guy and so are many other people. I hate, just hate, my time disrespected by sheer staff laziness. Do your job!

Get far better service in any number of developing countries.
Maybe we can have a special express line for people who are ever so pleasant, and constantly in a rush - you know the most important people, not just all the peons like the rest of us. Would that work best for you, Mr. Important?
Why not simply have 5,6, 10 staff when there are 3 widebodies full of people trying to get cleared?

Yeah my time is valuable. Not apologizing to state it.
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fish4life
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by fish4life »

To be fair I think catsa is light years ahead of the TSA in the states for timing
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by confusedalot »

Someone said something about the ''show'' of security somewhere.

It's the new normal, has been since 2001. So.....get to the airport in advance. Won't change no matter how much you complain.

Everyone is busy.
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Rockie
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by Rockie »

rookiepilot wrote:#2 is staffing (Catsa). Come in the other night, try to exit the international baggage area with about 500 other people at T1. 2, count em 2, Catsa folks checking everyone through. Who knows how many others standing around gabbing.

Massive, slow line. Unacceptable. I'm a busy guy and so are many other people. I hate, just hate, my time disrespected by sheer staff laziness. Do your job!
CATSA checks people coming in to the airport secure area, not out. The two people you saw collecting declaration cards exiting the international baggage area are with Canada Customs whose job is to redirect people selected for secondary inspection. The hold up there is invariably people who put their cards away and have to find them again.

I fail to see how that equates to laziness on their part or disrespect for your invaluable time. Perhaps if you sent them some advance notice you were coming they could bring in 10 more officers on overtime, or maybe block other passengers from leaving their aircraft so you won't be outrageously inconvenienced by having to stand in a line.
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by rookiepilot »

Rockie wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:#2 is staffing (Catsa). Come in the other night, try to exit the international baggage area with about 500 other people at T1. 2, count em 2, Catsa folks checking everyone through. Who knows how many others standing around gabbing.

Massive, slow line. Unacceptable. I'm a busy guy and so are many other people. I hate, just hate, my time disrespected by sheer staff laziness. Do your job!
CATSA checks people coming in to the airport secure area, not out. The two people you saw collecting declaration cards exiting the international baggage area are with Canada Customs whose job is to redirect people selected for secondary inspection. The hold up there is invariably people who put their cards away and have to find them again.

I fail to see how that equates to laziness on their part or disrespect for your invaluable time. Perhaps if you sent them some advance notice you were coming they could bring in 10 more officers on overtime, or maybe block other passengers from leaving their aircraft so you won't be outrageously inconvenienced by having to stand in a line.
Hold up was 5-600 people, the most I had ever seen, and 2 officers, yes Canada customs my mistake. Lines stretched back to the last carousel.

What part of this don't you understand?

The airport is getting much busier. Not proper staffing, yes does disrespect everyone's time.
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Rockie
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Re: Pathetic Pearson Airport

Post by Rockie »

I understood that it was customs and not CATSA which is more than you understood Rookie. While I share a fraction of your frustration with the long line ups that occasionally occur there I don't automatically assume it's a systemic staffing problem or laziness on the part of individual workers. I simply don't know...and neither do you.
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