A380 crosswind landing fun.

[rookiepilot]

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/emirat ... 0083972240

Looks like a bit of ride.

[GyvAir]

I wonder if a landing like that calls for any specific structural or landing gear inspections afterwards?

[crazyaviator]

Look CLOSELY at the lower rudder with the background showing A/C trajectory It was doing a good job BUT as soon as the pilot fed in rudder to correct yaw upon landing, the top rudder IMMEDIATELY went to mate with the lower one. I thought use of top rudder ( through software) would have been at a speed appreciably higher than flare! Did the WOW command the top rudder to mate with the lower one if the landing speed was above the threshold for both rudders to be working?

[crazyaviator]

I posted this on the site with the video, please correct me if I am wrong !


There are 2 rudders, the  lower one is used for higher and lower speed  and the upper bigger one is used for lower speed I believe there may be a fault of the manufacturer to allow both rudders to become fully functional at the point in the landing as shown in the video, thereby commanding a bad yaw without any additional inputs from the pilot !!!.

[GyvAir]

No idea on the rudder speeds, but here's a video of another a380 crosswind landing that shows them syncing up at the same stage of the landing.

[Victory]

I wonder if it's weight on wheels that triggers the top rudder into action. Scary automation making the aircraft do things the pilot didn't ask for once again.

[confusedalot]

Good catch, I did not notice the rudder, scary automation indeed if that is the actual case. That will snare anyone.

[FADEC]

Whoever is flying the 380 is "walking" the rudder all the way down; too much input from one extremet to the other.

The "pilot" is clearly behind; chasing the oscillations and aggravating them.

Lucky the fin didn't come off ala Anerican Airlines!

(almost twenty years as an Instructor Captain; Airbus, Boeing Douglas)

[Victory]

If your effective control surface suddenly doubles you would oscillate too. Yaw is actually being controlled quite nicely right up until that point.

[goingnowherefast]

I'm curious if that's the computers commanding the rapid rudder movement, or the pilot.

[Cat Driver]

I'm curious if that's the computers commanding the rapid rudder movement, or the pilot.

First it would be helpful to know what law they were flying in in at the time.

[CpnCrunch]

If your effective control surface suddenly doubles you would oscillate too. Yaw is actually being controlled quite nicely right up until that point.

Presumably they should be trained in how to use the rudder in the plane they're flying.

[Eric Janson]

Older airbus models have a conventional rudder.

Newer airbus models have a fly-by-wire rudder. I've flown one aircraft that has it and apart from a barely noticeable lag in rudder response the aircraft flies just like any other aircraft.

I'm not familiar with the A380 but the full rudder input after touchdown is being made by the Pilot.

[crazyaviator]

The pilot may have made full rudder input but he did NOT anticipate that the top, much larger rudder would be commanded to mate with the lower rudder , perhaps as per airbus logic. Yes, the deflections show that the pilot was chasing the oscillations he made BUT who would be able to anticipate rudder effectiveness automatically tripling upon touchdown?

[Ki-ll]

who would be able to anticipate rudder effectiveness automatically tripling upon touchdown?

Someone who know how systems of his airplane work?

[crazyaviator]

WHO is capable enough , while battling a strong gusty crosswind, think " I will need to reduce rudder deflection by 67% at the moment my WOW switch activates ( bear in mind it is likely on 1 gear only, so the pilot will need to anticipate when that gear compresses enough to activate the WOW switch ( squat switch) I am sure most pilots have that ability and awareness On a pre-planned low and over, the 2 pilots crashed the plane when they could not foresee the plane being in landing mode but they wanted to do otherwise ! Go figure!

[waterdog]

I have no idea how to fly the big boys but would I be right in guessing that if he didn't have spoilers that this would be an entirely different story and we would be talking about a ground loop. Judging by the speed of touch down and the lack of yaw control, my assumption is that if you take out the spoilers this bad boy is going around.?.

[Eric Janson]

The pilot may have made full rudder input but he did NOT anticipate that the top, much larger rudder would be commanded to mate with the lower rudder , perhaps as per airbus logic. Yes, the deflections show that the pilot was chasing the oscillations he made BUT who would be able to anticipate rudder effectiveness automatically tripling upon touchdown?

Pushing the rudder pedal to the stops gives you full rudder deflection on take-off and landing - airbus fbw is no different than any other aircraft. This is what happened at touchdown and it was the Pilot that gave a full rudder input.

There are very few situations where this is required - this certainly isn't one of them.

From personal experince - there is nothing difficult about landing airbus fbw aircraft in a crosswind.

[Ki-ll]

WHO is capable enough , while battling a strong gusty crosswind, think " I will need to reduce rudder deflection by 67% at the moment my WOW switch activates ( bear in mind it is likely on 1 gear only, so the pilot will need to anticipate when that gear compresses enough to activate the WOW switch ( squat switch) I am sure most pilots have that ability and awareness On a pre-planned low and over, the 2 pilots crashed the plane when they could not foresee the plane being in landing mode but they wanted to do otherwise ! Go figure!

Not sure exactly how it works but I doubt it is only on one switch. There is probably a GROUND mode with wheel spin up, WOW and maybe RadAlt input? Either way, hard to see necessity for a full rudder input on an all engines crosswind landing.

[crazyaviator]

Looking at the video again, I agree that it appears the pilot put full rudder input in. I also agree that the pilot was overcorrecting and doing a POOR job with this landing ! What I STILL see in the video appears to be an uncommanded upper rudder input to full rudder to mate with the lower rudder. A poor landing made worse by something that may have been beyond the control of the pilot