You are a company check pilot and are in the process of bringing a new hire – an ex-military guy – on line.
You’re doing some upper air work – instruments – and have cleared him to a hold prior to executing a VOR approach. You have him positioned in Sector 2 for an easy 30 degree offset entry into the hold (Well, you’re not a real prique…)
Now, when he hits the VOR, he turns outbound, parallels the inbound course, turns inbound at the appropriate time, flies to the VOR, turns right and continues in the hold.
Has your new hire done anything wrong?
The answer you got is a bit misleading. In a radar environment, protected airspace is a moot point. You are getting 3 or 5 miles radar separation from other a/c. Protected airspace in a hold or en-route is used in a non radar (procedural) environment or in a transition from non radar to radar (where the airspace is protected until the a/c is on radar).
The size of the airspace to be protected for a hold depends on the altitude. There are a number of different sized templates though for practical purposes, ATC will use only a few to encompass all the altitudes that they are working. This airspace is plotted and quite familiar to the controllers who use it daily. This is where we must ensure that the protected airspace for the hold / airway / approach procedure / etc do not overlap. Again this is in a non radar environment.
The holding template is a number 4 (smallest for FAA). It goes up to 31 which is roughly 87 nm long by 57 nm wide.
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(I'm speaking from the point of a small 703 operator flying light twins - the heavy metal probably requires less "creativity")
At least once a week. Depends where you’re flying. I’m out of Timmins which is a non radar environment. Can’t do an approach until the guy in front lands or cancels. Between Jazz, Porter, Thunder, Ornge, Cree, Bearskin ect it can get pretty busy.dpm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:13 pmJust out of curiosity, how many of you (who don't fly big planes into big airports like CYYZ) get holds often for real? In 14 years of private, small-plane IFR flying (about 400-500 of hours filed IFR), every hold I've flown has been either training or part of a flight test/IPC.
Agreed about the interesting non-radar environment there. On one of the flights, I departed in IMC just ahead of a Jazz Dash-8. I was on the airway torwards YYB (no RNAV yet in my plane), and the Jazz flight was on the airway towards YSB. Because they were so close, the poor Dash-8 was restricted by my Warrior's anemic climb rate: when I hit 4,000, they were cleared to 3,000; when I hit 5,000, they were cleared to 4,000; etc. Eventually the airways diverged enough (based on my DME position reports) that Toronto Centre was able to clear the Dash-8 to an unrestricted climb.
Sector 2 procedures (offset entry) are:
(a) Upon reaching the fix, turn to a heading that results in a track having an angle of 30 degrees OR LESS from the inbound track reciprocal on the holding side.
This gives you the option of a 30 degree offset, a 20 degree offset, a ten degree offset, or no offset at all.
So, holding entry becomes much simpler: “Can I do direct entry? No? Then it’s ‘turn the shortest way outbound and do a parallel entry’…”
Good point, 172_Captain - it's been so long since I did a hold that I forgot the fact that it's not because they're becoming so rare, more so that it's because I haven't been recently where they are more common. For us out on the east coast, one spot where that may happen is in Iles-de-la-Madeleine (CYGR), because like Timmins, the radar coverage doesn't go to the ground. A few times when I went in there, Moncton Center at least told me to anticipate a hold, and they did it far enough back that I just slowed down and avoided it altogether (they don't have so much traffic, it's just the wait for them to land, taxi clear and close the flight plan).172_Captain wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:31 pmAt least once a week. Depends where you’re flying. I’m out of Timmins which is a non radar environment. Can’t do an approach until the guy in front lands or cancels. Between Jazz, Porter, Thunder, Ornge, Cree, Bearskin ect it can get pretty busy.dpm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:13 pmJust out of curiosity, how many of you (who don't fly big planes into big airports like CYYZ) get holds often for real? In 14 years of private, small-plane IFR flying (about 400-500 of hours filed IFR), every hold I've flown has been either training or part of a flight test/IPC.
I still recall having this same conversation with a brand new F/O many years ago and telling her that we almost never ever get a hold. Of course, you guessed it - we had a hold that very flight!