I'll be going into my first FO position next month, and want to do my best not annoy all my captains right off the bat.
So, my question to all you captains is:
What pet peeves do you have with your FO's that I can try to avoid?
FO Pet Peeves
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4hrstovegas
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FO Pet Peeves
Success flourishes only in perseverance -- ceaseless, restless perseverance. -The Red Baron
I'll bite..
1) Pointing to everything in the cockpit. As in "Annunciators Clear" and pointing to them. Annoying. Im a nice guy but Ive smacked a few hands for that.
2) Touching the glass face of instruments, dials, gps etc.. Not kosher.
3) Making sound effects of any sort... rare but annoying.
4) When manning the comms, giving ATC our intentions without consulting. Not nice.
5) Looking at scenery when you just about always can be getting things done ahead of time - paperwork, flight planning, Wx checks, getting ATIS etc...
6) Bad mouthing other captains, F/O's... Reflects poorly on yourself.
7) Not knowing your SOPs and emergency procedures cold. Thats a no brainer.
Im sure theres more....
Cheers and congrats on moving up...
1) Pointing to everything in the cockpit. As in "Annunciators Clear" and pointing to them. Annoying. Im a nice guy but Ive smacked a few hands for that.
2) Touching the glass face of instruments, dials, gps etc.. Not kosher.
3) Making sound effects of any sort... rare but annoying.
4) When manning the comms, giving ATC our intentions without consulting. Not nice.
5) Looking at scenery when you just about always can be getting things done ahead of time - paperwork, flight planning, Wx checks, getting ATIS etc...
6) Bad mouthing other captains, F/O's... Reflects poorly on yourself.
7) Not knowing your SOPs and emergency procedures cold. Thats a no brainer.
Im sure theres more....
Cheers and congrats on moving up...
Keep flying till the noise stops.
Things you need to remember ...
1. YOU ARE A FLIGHT CREW MEMBER! Your opinion always counts for something.
2. Don't let an a$$hole Captain bully you in the cockpit. As SplitS stated previous .. he's "SMACKED a few hands for that" You have permission to punch him in the face. (when on the ground of course) Because THAT is not kosher! What the hell is he, your babysitter?! He can ask you like a human being not to do something that bothers him.
3. If you are NOT comfortable with something SPEAK UP! and let it be known. Being a flight crew member you need to be informed just as much as the Captain.
4. MINIMUMS ARE MINIMUMS! .. don't let one of these bush monkeys take an a/c below published minimums because he "KNOWS THE AREA" Thats a load of crap!
5. You being the F/O .. your going to find that you need to change styles with every Captain you fly with. Well .. that is again .. crap! Because the SOP's outline how cockpit duties flow, and when you need to change styles that means the Captain has changed SOP's. Captains seem to always want to interpret the SOP's and say "well the company actually means to do it this way" .. NO .. Just how you read it .. JackA$$
6. MOST IMPORTANT!!!! ... Study hard, and have fun doing what you and I, and all of us on here love to do ... FLY! ...
Congrats,
Loc
1. YOU ARE A FLIGHT CREW MEMBER! Your opinion always counts for something.
2. Don't let an a$$hole Captain bully you in the cockpit. As SplitS stated previous .. he's "SMACKED a few hands for that" You have permission to punch him in the face. (when on the ground of course) Because THAT is not kosher! What the hell is he, your babysitter?! He can ask you like a human being not to do something that bothers him.
3. If you are NOT comfortable with something SPEAK UP! and let it be known. Being a flight crew member you need to be informed just as much as the Captain.
4. MINIMUMS ARE MINIMUMS! .. don't let one of these bush monkeys take an a/c below published minimums because he "KNOWS THE AREA" Thats a load of crap!
5. You being the F/O .. your going to find that you need to change styles with every Captain you fly with. Well .. that is again .. crap! Because the SOP's outline how cockpit duties flow, and when you need to change styles that means the Captain has changed SOP's. Captains seem to always want to interpret the SOP's and say "well the company actually means to do it this way" .. NO .. Just how you read it .. JackA$$
6. MOST IMPORTANT!!!! ... Study hard, and have fun doing what you and I, and all of us on here love to do ... FLY! ...
Congrats,
Loc
I agree with you Localizer about the smack comment but Im talking in jest and about good buddies Ive flown with... Maybe done it twice and we both laughed about it... Obviously I didnt say that but its what I meant...
Not to get personal but from your post though seems you dont have any respect for the guys you fly with: i.e. "asshole" "jackass" bush monkey" etc
Are you a disgruntled F/O??? Sounds like it....
Not to get personal but from your post though seems you dont have any respect for the guys you fly with: i.e. "asshole" "jackass" bush monkey" etc
Are you a disgruntled F/O??? Sounds like it....
Keep flying till the noise stops.
I guess he hasnt paid for his PPC yet.... I get along and try and guide my new F/O's into performing the way they should. However a couple of things that drive me nuts about getting some green F/O's are:
1) If you're coming in from instructing, PLEASE don't treat me like one of your students. I know the aircraft/SOPS/etc.. a little better then you do. Going along with this, don't question every decision I make. No I don't bust minimums or fly overweight, however I have had guys come in that were a little insubordinate. Show some respect please
2) Know how to talk on the radio
3) Know your SOPS/emergencies like the back of your hand. It is not my job to be guiding you through an engine failure on rotation. I usually test to see how well my new guys know their SOP's/emergencies by just going over them while in the air. I'll even simulate certain things (obviously non flight related items) to see where they're at.
and finally
4) BE open to criticism! I'm not attacking you on a personal level, I'm just helping to show you the ropes and how things are done. Credit is given where it is due, but don't start giving me attitude because I am trying to streamline you into the way our operations work. I tell my guys that I expect them to make mistakes, and that's ok it's to be expected. Just listen to what I have to say and ask if you don't know something.
In general I try to help the new guys through as best I can, however they have to show a little effort and have the right attitude. I don't hog all the flying, it's done on a 50/50 basis and even if you do something stupid I'll let you get away with it (provided it's still within the realm of safety) because they need to learn. I do admit though that getting "newbies" at this time of year can sometimes suck, as this is when you start seeing some solid IFR days. Combine this with someone who is still learning the airplane and it can get stressful sometimes. The thing that keeps me in check though, is knowing that I too once was in that position and learned from flying with some great captains.
1) If you're coming in from instructing, PLEASE don't treat me like one of your students. I know the aircraft/SOPS/etc.. a little better then you do. Going along with this, don't question every decision I make. No I don't bust minimums or fly overweight, however I have had guys come in that were a little insubordinate. Show some respect please
2) Know how to talk on the radio
3) Know your SOPS/emergencies like the back of your hand. It is not my job to be guiding you through an engine failure on rotation. I usually test to see how well my new guys know their SOP's/emergencies by just going over them while in the air. I'll even simulate certain things (obviously non flight related items) to see where they're at.
and finally
4) BE open to criticism! I'm not attacking you on a personal level, I'm just helping to show you the ropes and how things are done. Credit is given where it is due, but don't start giving me attitude because I am trying to streamline you into the way our operations work. I tell my guys that I expect them to make mistakes, and that's ok it's to be expected. Just listen to what I have to say and ask if you don't know something.
In general I try to help the new guys through as best I can, however they have to show a little effort and have the right attitude. I don't hog all the flying, it's done on a 50/50 basis and even if you do something stupid I'll let you get away with it (provided it's still within the realm of safety) because they need to learn. I do admit though that getting "newbies" at this time of year can sometimes suck, as this is when you start seeing some solid IFR days. Combine this with someone who is still learning the airplane and it can get stressful sometimes. The thing that keeps me in check though, is knowing that I too once was in that position and learned from flying with some great captains.
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
No ... Im not a disgruntled F/O, I like most other people use to be an F/O and I wanna make sure that future F/O's don't put up with the attitude, and crustyness of "old school Captains". I enjoyed flying with all of my Captains and I learned a lot from there teachings. But there are some aspects of the job that an F/O puts up with ... that he shouldn't, and I direct the a$$hole comments toward that kind of Captain. Not to the professionals that try to make a keen working environment. Don't take it to heart people .. good Captains wouldn't comment about that, only the ones who fall into that catagory would get there back up! .. 
.. time to look in the mirror ... Is that you?
Loc
.. time to look in the mirror ... Is that you? Loc
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Highflyinpilot
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I agree with Localizer, you get the asshole captains that think their god's gift to the world. I sure hope your not one of them SplitS, especially being a training captain you are in a good position to think that(Not saying that you do think your god's gift to the world, but just hope you dont because we dont need anymore of them around)
And who cares if they point at everything in the cockpit, Maybe they feel more comfortable in doing this, or maybe thats just the way they do things, who cares. Its like saying use your index finger to flick the switch instead of your middle finger, Who cares how they flick the switch, who cares if they point.
And who cares if they point at everything in the cockpit, Maybe they feel more comfortable in doing this, or maybe thats just the way they do things, who cares. Its like saying use your index finger to flick the switch instead of your middle finger, Who cares how they flick the switch, who cares if they point.
-I agree with splits.Doing anything without getting the ok when you should have asked or you are not sure, not cool! Ask questions, and lots of them. you will learn quicker, you will also get different answers from different captains. That is where I disagree with localizer, everybody is a bit different and SOP's can be done a little different by everyone and still followed with the same end result.SplitS wrote: 4) When manning the comms, giving ATC our intentions without consulting. Not nice.
-most checklists should be called for by the PF, if you are levelling off @ a flight level, give the guy a second to trim it out a bit and call for the checklist before you start asking"do u want your levell-off checks", that goes for all checklists. If the PF totally forgets, well then ask!(personal annoyance there).
- like cofused said, don't come into a job and let on you invented flying, the guy sitting beside you knows alot more about the aircraft and the job in general than you do, show some respect and you will earn yours in time! The "joe pilot" type end up looking like a tool!
-This is totally my thinking, but, some things like the heat for example should only be operated by the capt. that way you are not turning the damn thing up and down all the time, if you are cold or hot ask!
-some things are just comon sense, if one button runs the flood lights on both sides, don't be adjusting the f#^kin thing when the other guy is flying, I can't even believe some people need to be told these things!
-just ask a ton of questions(ie: what would you do, why do you do it that way ect...).
-eat crow when you know you should!
-have fun, good luck!
The two words every captain wants to hear from new FO's.
1 I'll take the fat one.
2. I'm buying.
seriously, many captains, in todays politically correct world, feel that the second pilot is an valuable asset that can be relied upon when the going gets rough but that happens only when the FO is comfortable and competant so do not take CONSTRUCTIVE critisism personally. I am talking about how to fly the airplane, not on how you come accross as a person. Rude and/or uncomplimentary comments are not to be tolerated. Don't take it personly if there are long moments of silence in the cockpit, the captain may be asleep. I find that I sometimes have trouble carrying on a conversation at certain times and may sit there for a long time, wrapped up in my own thoughts. But above all, try your best. You are part of a crew.
1 I'll take the fat one.
2. I'm buying.
seriously, many captains, in todays politically correct world, feel that the second pilot is an valuable asset that can be relied upon when the going gets rough but that happens only when the FO is comfortable and competant so do not take CONSTRUCTIVE critisism personally. I am talking about how to fly the airplane, not on how you come accross as a person. Rude and/or uncomplimentary comments are not to be tolerated. Don't take it personly if there are long moments of silence in the cockpit, the captain may be asleep. I find that I sometimes have trouble carrying on a conversation at certain times and may sit there for a long time, wrapped up in my own thoughts. But above all, try your best. You are part of a crew.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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Jaques Strappe
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I think Localizer and Split S are on the same page, just different paragraphs.
The key is CRM. Communicate with your colleague rather than listen to dialogue in your own head. Accepting a visual approach without first making sure that you are not the only one who can actually see the airport would be a great start.
Anticipate the needs of the pilot flying to off load his/her duties somewhat to allow him/her to fly the airplane and concentrate on the task at hand. Ask questions, there are no stupid ones.
Doesn't matter what seat you are sitting in, as soon as the communication stops, you are single pilot.
The key is CRM. Communicate with your colleague rather than listen to dialogue in your own head. Accepting a visual approach without first making sure that you are not the only one who can actually see the airport would be a great start.
Anticipate the needs of the pilot flying to off load his/her duties somewhat to allow him/her to fly the airplane and concentrate on the task at hand. Ask questions, there are no stupid ones.
Doesn't matter what seat you are sitting in, as soon as the communication stops, you are single pilot.
Standby for new atis message
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Highflyinpilot
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4hrstovegas
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Ahhh, that's another good point to bring up. What impresses me with a new F/O.
1) Showing up on time! If I show up to the airport and I've beaten you there, I start wondering. Considering that I take almost the longest to get to the airport, as I do most of my work at home before I leave.
2) Be 2 steps ahead on the paperwork by having some W&B templates made up, so that all you have to do is add in a couple of numbers and boom there you go.
3) If you fly to the same area all the time, knowing the identifiers to the airports, frequencies, etc...If you're still trying to look them up after say 3 months, I start to wonder.
4) Knowing your SOP's and not arguing if you're not 100% sure about them. I've had people argue with me that I was wrong, when I wasn't.
5) By asking questions, as this keeps me on my toes. If I don't know the answer then I'll know what I need to refresh myself on.
6) If you have previous experience with other companies (not first turbine job), feel free to pass on how things were done out there. No one's perfect and if there's a better way to do things great maybe I'll consider giving it a try. However, on the backside of that don't get pissy if I reject the idea. I'll explain why, don't worry.
7) If you have to sit on site anywhere, feel free to ask if I want to sit in the plane and go over drills with you. This keeps us both sharp and gets you used to the airplane!
This should give a good start. Just in general, show up with a good positive "can do" attitude and you'll be fine. Hope this helps.
1) Showing up on time! If I show up to the airport and I've beaten you there, I start wondering. Considering that I take almost the longest to get to the airport, as I do most of my work at home before I leave.
2) Be 2 steps ahead on the paperwork by having some W&B templates made up, so that all you have to do is add in a couple of numbers and boom there you go.
3) If you fly to the same area all the time, knowing the identifiers to the airports, frequencies, etc...If you're still trying to look them up after say 3 months, I start to wonder.
4) Knowing your SOP's and not arguing if you're not 100% sure about them. I've had people argue with me that I was wrong, when I wasn't.
5) By asking questions, as this keeps me on my toes. If I don't know the answer then I'll know what I need to refresh myself on.
6) If you have previous experience with other companies (not first turbine job), feel free to pass on how things were done out there. No one's perfect and if there's a better way to do things great maybe I'll consider giving it a try. However, on the backside of that don't get pissy if I reject the idea. I'll explain why, don't worry.
7) If you have to sit on site anywhere, feel free to ask if I want to sit in the plane and go over drills with you. This keeps us both sharp and gets you used to the airplane!
This should give a good start. Just in general, show up with a good positive "can do" attitude and you'll be fine. Hope this helps.
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
1. You're responsible for the SOP's and are expected to fly the aircraft in accordance with them by your company and Transport Canada. Captain's "peculiarities" don't count so don't waste your time memorizing them.
2. Be a sponge. Most guys have lots to offer that you can and should learn from, but don't discount your own instincts and knowledge. Even the greenest FO knows something the crustiest old Captain doesn't.
3. Don't suck up.
4. Know your stuff.
5. Be professional.
Welcome to multicrew flying.
2. Be a sponge. Most guys have lots to offer that you can and should learn from, but don't discount your own instincts and knowledge. Even the greenest FO knows something the crustiest old Captain doesn't.
3. Don't suck up.
4. Know your stuff.
5. Be professional.
Welcome to multicrew flying.
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groundtoflightdeck
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