Failure to complete 2 yr currency

[Lost Lake]

I havent been able to find the consequences of not having done a 2 yr recurrency. cars 401.5. Do you no longer have a valid license. What if you're ramped. If you own a plane is the insurance valid?

I get a pcc every year i have many private friends who I believe have done nothing in years except medical.

Thanks.

[digits_]

I havent been able to find the consequences of not having done a 2 yr recurrency. cars 401.5. Do you no longer have a valid license. What if you're ramped. If you own a plane is the insurance valid?

I get a pcc every year i have many private friends who I believe have done nothing in years except medical.

Thanks.

Your license is still valid (if the blue booklet isn't expired), but you haven't fullfilled the recency requirement. That means you aren't allowed to exercise the privileges of your rating or license.

You can still own a plane. But you probably can't be PIC in it. If getting ramped, that implies that you were about to go fly your plane? I'd say you probably have some explaining to do. Probably a violation with a fine.

Insurance should be valid as long as you don't fly the plane, but check your policy.

(you = your friend)

[kevind]

I have had pilots wanting to volunteer to fly cadets, but would not/could not prove currency and were upset that we expected them to do a yearly instructor ride. So, we did not use them.

[ahramin]

Kevind the question was about the 2 year recency rule contained in the CARs. Cadet currency rules are onerous at best, counterproductive at worst. The cadet currency rules are necessary for very low time pilots, and complete overkill for experienced pilots. In my experience the result is that cadets are mostly being flown by very inexperienced pilot desparate for free hours. Safety goes down instead of up.

[kevind]

Oh..I agree about the rules for cadets being tight, but these pilots told me they do not need any currency proof at all. Had not been with an instructor for years and did not know about the Flight Crew Recency Requirements Self-Paced Study Program. My comment was more to

... i have many private friends who I believe have done nothing in years except medical.

[trey kule]

If getting ramped, that implies that you were about to go fly your plane?

That is not quite correct. In fact this was tested at both a tribunal and court many years ago...late 80s.. Guy was just going through his plane and running up the engine after the winter...Goons made the same assumption that he was going flying, and refused to believe him when he told them that he had specifically told his family he was just going to do a runup..

A lot of tax payers’ money wasted because of that assumption.

But TC has a bit of history of violating people without consideration to the facts.

[photofly]

First of all, in Canada, the rules are about recency, not currency, which is an FAA thing.

Secondly, and much more importantly, it takes about 10 minutes to meet the requirements of CAR401.05(2)(a) - "the two year rule":

See 421.05(2):
"In order to comply with the requirements of 401.05(2)(a), any of the following are considered acceptable as recurrent training programs: ....
(d) completion of the self-paced study program produced annually in the Transport Canada Aviation Safety Newsletter, which is designed to update pilot knowledge in the subjects specified in (c) above. The completed copy shall be the most current published by date and shall be retained by the licence holder;"

It takes less time than it does to read this thread.

You could also check with TC if your annual PCC meets the requirements of part (e) of the same regulation....
"(e) completion of a training program or Pilot Proficiency Check as required by Parts IV, VI or VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations;"
...in which case you already meet the requirements.

You're welcome.

[ahramin]

At my RAA club we have started a program of going through the TC Newsletter study program and completing it together every year. Belonging to a club used to be just an old farts hanging around thing but more and more I'm seeing clubs get involved in both getting new people involved in aviation and bringing up the proficiency of the pilots in the club. EAA's IFR and VFR club programs have been particularly effective in promoting proficiency.

[digits_]

If getting ramped, that implies that you were about to go fly your plane?

That is not quite correct. In fact this was tested at both a tribunal and court many years ago...late 80s.. Guy was just going through his plane and running up the engine after the winter...Goons made the same assumption that he was going flying, and refused to believe him when he told them that he had specifically told his family he was just going to do a runup..

A lot of tax payers’ money wasted because of that assumption.

But TC has a bit of history of violating people without consideration to the facts.

That's why I put a question mark in there, but fair enough, you're absolutely right.

I think for Lost Lake's question, my answer still stands though. I think he's worried about his friends getting in the plane to go flying without recency and getting ramp checked that way. But not 100% sure, absolutely.

[dpm]

I think for Lost Lake's question, my answer still stands though. I think he's worried about his friends getting in the plane to go flying without recency and getting ramp checked that way. But not 100% sure, absolutely.

I wouldn't worry about getting ramp checked—if you read the TC enforcement actions in COPA Flight, they're laughable mild, even for serious infractions. and TC doesn't have the budget to do much ramp checking any more anyway.

What I would worry about is (a) killing someone else, (b) killing myself, and (c) having the insurance refuse to pay in case of an accident because I wasn't flying legally, in that order. If your friends can't even handle a simple recency requirement like a 5-minute multiple-choice quiz every two years, I have a lot of doubts about how much attention they pay to harder stuff, like checking the weather, preflighting the plane, having enough fuel, keeping track of ADs, and not stalling and spinning in on final. None of us is perfect—I have a long list of mistakes and idiot moves in my 15 years of flying—but it's hard to imagine a lower bar to get over in aviation than than the two-year recency requirement.

[Maule4]

Pardon my ignorance on this; I’m a commercial pilot, licensed for 20 years but I no longer fly for a living. I have never done one of these 2 year rececncy to keep my license current. I’m guessing that when I was flying, the annual pcc and recurrent training from the operator was sufficient? In saying that I suppose I better do the little test, question is what do I do with it after complted? I’ve stopped getting the annual safety letters as well, does transport issue anything stating that your due for the 2 year recency training?

[JasonE]

Fold up the test and stick it in your log book. Nothing issued from Transport.

For private flyers not flying many hours, I think a flight review is a better idea.

[dpm]

Pardon my ignorance on this; I’m a commercial pilot, licensed for 20 years but I no longer fly for a living. I have never done one of these 2 year rececncy to keep my license current. I’m guessing that when I was flying, the annual pcc and recurrent training from the operator was sufficient? In saying that I suppose I better do the little test, question is what do I do with it after complted? I’ve stopped getting the annual safety letters as well, does transport issue anything stating that your due for the 2 year recency training?

If you're still using your instrument rating, your two-year IPC meets the requirement—nothing else to worry about. This is an issue only for the VFR guys and gals (or IFR people flying VFR while overdue for the IPC).

[CYXDSTUD]

I've always wondered about this topic in particular regarding working overseas. Is there any stipulation that the flying in particular has to be flown in a Canadian registered aircraft? I expect to be out if the country for five of more years but still fly regularly and go for recurrent sim every six months. Granted I do not use my Canadian licence and do not follow the TC specific PPC sim criteria or have my Canafian licence signed off by a TC examiner would I be able to come home after five years and jump into a Canadian registered GA aircraft and go for a rip or would my licence be considered to not meet the two year recency requirement.

"(e) completion of a training program or Pilot Proficiency Check as required by Parts IV, VI or VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations;"

Have guys flying abroad for a time had an issue with recency or even the five year currency when they got home? Obviously after renewing the medical and doing training and ride with your new company everything will right itself but I am talking merely from a legal standpoint of jumping into a GA aircraft and go for a joyride. If it has been more then five years since flying a Canadian registered aircraft would I then be required to rewrite the PSTAR upon my return and a check flight or can I assume being an active Airline Pilot albeit not exercising the privilege's of my Canadian licence be expected not to go through the whole rigermarole.

[Panama Jack]

I've always wondered about this topic in particular regarding working overseas. Is there any stipulation that the flying in particular has to be flown in a Canadian registered aircraft? I expect to be out if the country for five of more years but still fly regularly and go for recurrent sim every six months. Granted I do not use my Canadian licence and do not follow the TC specific PPC sim criteria or have my Canafian licence signed off by a TC examiner would I be able to come home after five years and jump into a Canadian registered GA aircraft and go for a rip or would my licence be considered to not meet the two year recency requirement.

"(e) completion of a training program or Pilot Proficiency Check as required by Parts IV, VI or VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations;"

Have guys flying abroad for a time had an issue with recency or even the five year currency when they got home? Obviously after renewing the medical and doing training and ride with your new company everything will right itself but I am talking merely from a legal standpoint of jumping into a GA aircraft and go for a joyride. If it has been more then five years since flying a Canadian registered aircraft would I then be required to rewrite the PSTAR upon my return and a check flight or can I assume being an active Airline Pilot albeit not exercising the privilege's of my Canadian licence be expected not to go through the whole rigermarole.

No

[RatherBeFlying]

The glider folks have been running safety meetings for some time at national and provincial AGMs. We got Transport Canada approval so that attendance qualifies as recurrent training.

The local flying club has a get together over the ASL annual questionnaire.

Or you can do it on your own - pretty simple.

[Lost Lake]

My question is simply to do with the validity of your license. If you haven't done a recurrency in 2 years, can you legally fly an airplane. If you have an accident, will you be insured. It seems so vague. It only says you have to do it. Nowhere does it say something like....Failure to comply will result in your license being null and void until you meet the requirements.

Besides, as a side bar, who is the safer Pilot? Someone who answers some questions on paper who flies once a year or someone who doesn't do the paperwork and flies 100 hr a year. Just seems like a stupid bureaucratic useless rule/law.

You must meet currency rules or what...you can't have desert tonite?

[Aviatard]

You must meet currency rules or what...you can't have desert tonite?

CARS 103.08. Maximum penalty $3000 for an individual.

[AuxBatOn]

It is pretty straight forward:

"401.05 (1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Subpart, no holder of a flight crew permit, licence or rating, other than the holder of a flight engineer licence, shall exercise the privileges of the permit, licence or rating unless"

Privileges of each permit, license or rating are defined in divisions V through XXIII of 401.

For example:

Division VIII — Airline Transport Pilot Licence

Aeroplanes — Privileges

401.34 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the holder of an airline transport pilot licence — aeroplane may exercise the privileges of a private pilot licence — aeroplane and a commercial pilot licence — aeroplane.

(2) The holder of an airline transport pilot licence — aeroplane endorsed with a Group 1 instrument rating may, while engaged in providing a commercial air service by means of an aeroplane of a class and type in respect of which the licence is endorsed with a rating, act as

(a) pilot-in-command of the aeroplane, if the minimum flight crew document for that aeroplane specifies a minimum flight crew of two pilots; or

(b) co-pilot of the aeroplane.

So, you are expired? You cannot fly as a PPL, CPL or PIC or Co-Pilot of an aeroplane with minimum flight crew of two pilots.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you are on the West Coast think about attending one of the Nav Canada run “PREPAIR” seminars that run every spring. They are an excellent general update on ATS services and procedures and a general safety refresher. Attendance meets the CAR’s 24 Month recency requirements.