Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

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16SidedOffice
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by 16SidedOffice »

Have used FF many times from the Lower mainland into the BC interior and back etc and have never had an issue as long as I have been high enough to stay within radar coverage which is spotty at best. Something not commonly thought about by most users in the Southern portion of the SDA east of YYC.
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Broken Slinky
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by Broken Slinky »

I've used flight following lots of times along the Windsor, Toronto, Montreal, Quebec City corridor. Especially like it if I have passengers and they run us right beside the CN Tower. Makes for great photo ops.
We also tend to take short cuts through US airspace so we have to request flight following. Received too many calls during flight following "traffic 12 o'clock, 2 miles opposite direction, same altitude, unknown type". Always wonder if I had been staring at my instruments during that time if I would have seen the other aircraft in time.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by SuperchargedRS »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:16 am
That is a huge reason to use FF in the US. If they screw up and vector you into restricted, its on them, and on tape. Very important. Whenever I flight plan US I specifically ask on my route for a TFR check. If I would happen to bust one that briefing is also on tape, that I asked.
Careful with that!!

Yeah they'll look out for you, but their responsibilities for VFR flight following is quite a bit different than a plane on a IFR clearance

If -->you're VFR<-- even with flight following and you enter a hot restricted, pop up TFR, or bravo without hearing the magic words "cleared into the bravo" or don't see and avoid, it will be on you. The only thing FF counts for is two way radio communication for entering delta and Charly (if you have the transponder requirements for C).



anofly wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:58 pm its not about how busy the airspace is, its about how many controllers the company is willing to pay to sit there....
This is one of the reasons people in the US who honestly like and support aviation and having the best system on earth, adamantly resist privatizing ATC like Canada.

Privatizing is good for some things, but not so great for other things.


That said I've always been able to get flight following, NYC, LA, bodunk nowhere, etc
Worse case if I was super remote I just had to climb higher to get in their radar coverage.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by rookiepilot »

SuperchargedRS wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:44 am
rookiepilot wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:16 am
That is a huge reason to use FF in the US. If they screw up and vector you into restricted, its on them, and on tape. Very important. Whenever I flight plan US I specifically ask on my route for a TFR check. If I would happen to bust one that briefing is also on tape, that I asked.
Careful with that!!

Yeah they'll look out for you, but their responsibilities for VFR flight following is quite a bit different than a plane on a IFR clearance

If -->you're VFR<-- even with flight following and you enter a hot restricted, pop up TFR, or bravo without hearing the magic words "cleared into the bravo" or don't see and avoid, it will be on you. The only thing FF counts for is two way radio communication for entering delta and Charly (if you have the transponder requirements for C).
Think I've always been on an ifr clearance. Never any issues.

Read about a guy busted VFR for violating a TFR. He got off because he got a briefing which specifically was on tape no TFR's on your route. Briefer screwed up. That being said Foreflight ect updates live, so not much excuse these days.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by SuperchargedRS »

Think we're talking different things, I was addressing VFR fight following, not a IFR clearance or a briefing.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by Spinwmts »

rookiepilot wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:40 pm
Read about a guy busted VFR for violating a TFR. He got off because he got a briefing which specifically was on tape no TFR's on your route. Briefer screwed up. That being said Foreflight ect updates live, so not much excuse these days.
Yeah I got cleared through an RA (specifically the DC SFRA) while on FF, then I was handed off, when I called up the next center I was informed that I was in restricted airspace and to immediately exist the area on heading of 123. I complied and maybe 5 minutes later was called up again to confirm my tail number. I explained to ATC I was on FF and cleared to proceed through the area, the gentlemen told me he would "check the tapes" and I never heard from him again... I was on solo XC so the interaction rattled me...After I landed and relayed the story to my CFI, he suggested I file a NASA report as there was a clear gap in the system since one guy cleared me and the next "busted" me. -Regardless It was a good learning experience.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by rookiepilot »

If ANY doubt in the US, file a NASA report. I filed one after leaving a US airport and I misread the departure SID, which I wasn't used to. It was a an interesting SID with an S turn immediately after departure, which I misinterpreted. Did not bust restricted airspace, but it was a clearance violation. NASA is a good system then they can catalog the violations and perhaps do a redesign.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by Spinwmts »

rookiepilot wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:05 pm If ANY doubt in the US, file a NASA report. I filed one after leaving a US airport and I misread the departure SID, which I wasn't used to. It was a an interesting SID with an S turn immediately after departure, which I misinterpreted. Did not bust restricted airspace, but it was a clearance violation. NASA is a good system then they can catalog the violations and perhaps do a redesign.
Hi Rookie, That is indeed an interesting SID. Do you remember which one it was, I'd like to check it out!
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rookiepilot
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by rookiepilot »

Manassas, VA, Departure...think its 34. If SID didn't exist, straight out points one at Dulles -- which I did a moment too long :roll: SID turns one immediate west to the vor, then back north, on the transition that led to my routing.

I'd only done one SID outside a simple one at YKF ever, so moral is....never hurts to check if not sure in busy airspace. Moment departure queried me, I realized what I'd missed --

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1802/05326ARSENAL.PDF
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Spinwmts
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by Spinwmts »

NO WAY!!! that's my home town!!! LOL What were you doing there if you don't mind me asking?
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rookiepilot
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by rookiepilot »

Spinwmts wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:59 am NO WAY!!! that's my home town!!! LOL What were you doing there if you don't mind me asking?
Visiting DC. Far cheaper than Dulles
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Cessna 180
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by Cessna 180 »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:49 pm
Spinwmts wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:59 am NO WAY!!! that's my home town!!! LOL What were you doing there if you don't mind me asking?
Visiting DC. Far cheaper than Dulles
I dunno I thought Dulles was pretty cheap for singles. Just need to buy $8 gallons of avgas. They were willing to let me borrow the crew car for the whole day to visit the museums. This was Signature I believe. Can't say 100% because I had to cancel the flight due to weather.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by Spinwmts »

Very cool! Hope you enjoyed the DC area. With the exception of the traffic of course.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Flight Following (radar surveillance for VFR)

Post by Spinwmts »

Btw to add to my original post about ATC not always being the most pleasant with VFR folks when requesting flight following. I chatted with my instructor today about this subject and he says that in his exp it seems mostly a Winnipeg centre thing. Perhaps the culture in the Winnipeg centre is not as accommodating for FF then other FICs. Or maybe he just had a few grumpy controllers.
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