Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

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Spinwmts
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Taxi Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Spinwmts »

In busy airspace would you ever use your taxi lights during the day to help to be seen? My original flight school it was a SOP (or maybe it was my instructors SOP) to toggle that taxi light prior to take off and leave that bad boy on for the entire flight. I have been told since that these lights have an incredible short life cycle and that you would never use it during the day. Any thoughts?
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photofly
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by photofly »

If you have LED lights it should be no problem. Incandescent lamps will burn out in a hundred or so hours. Ish.

Also LED units use a lot less current so your fuel consumption will be lower.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Make yourself visible at all times. When flying my little Grumman AA1, I leave the landing light on for the entire flight.
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PilotDAR
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by PilotDAR »

Consider that there was WW2 experimentation with the use of lights on aircraft during the day as camouflage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehudi_lights
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

My personal experience has been that landing lights are much brighter than the surrounding sky and so greatly increases the conspicuity of an aircraft
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by goingnowherefast »

photofly wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:23 pm Also LED units use a lot less current so your fuel consumption will be lower.
100w is 1/3rd horsepower, so negligible effect on an aircraft.
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photofly
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by photofly »

goingnowherefast wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:01 pm
photofly wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:23 pm Also LED units use a lot less current so your fuel consumption will be lower.
100w is 1/3rd horsepower, so negligible effect on an aircraft.
Less than that... isn’t 1bhp equivant to 750W?

Still... your fuel consumption will still be lower... just not much. :)
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gwagen
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Re: Taxi Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by gwagen »

Electricity virtually “free”
Light bulbs cheap
Mid air collisions expensive, probably fatal.

Turn the light on, if they burn out frequently replace with even brighter LED.
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Heliian
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Heliian »

Incandescent during the day are much more visible than led.

Turn on and leave on to increase life span, on and off all the time will burn out faster but a pulsing light is even more visible.

746 watts = 1hp
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by AirFrame »

All the lights, all the time.
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5x5
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by 5x5 »

Personally, I've never noticed any increase of visibility in aircraft with the landing light and/or strobes on during the day. The relative darkness of the airframe against the sky is what works for me. Plus, I'm not often looking head on to another aircraft so the landing light isn't that useful anyway. Holding short I've never been unable to see aircraft on final without a landing light on. Perhaps it is a case of something that seems to be common sense but isn't actually?

Here's a report issued in 2008 by the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) in the States about daytime running lights (DRLs). I realize cars and airplanes aren't exactly the same, but the argument for daytime running lights on cars is pretty much the same as for daytime landing lights on aircraft.https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Pu ... ion/811029

It's 110 pages long, so for anyone not interested in clicking the link, here's the abstract from page 3. I've added the emphasis to 2 key findings.
NHTSA wrote:The analysis evaluates the effects of daytime running lights (DRLs) against three types of target crashes: (1) two-passengervehicle
crashes excluding rear-end crashes, (2) single-passenger-vehicle to pedestrians/cyclists crashes, and (3) singlepassenger-vehicle
to motorcycle crashes. Each crash type was examined at three crash severity levels – fatal, injury, and all
severity. The basic approach is a control-comparison analysis of real-world crash involvements for DRL-equipped vehicles
and non-DRL vehicles. Ratio of odds ratios were used to derive the DRL effects. A 95-percent confidence interval was used
to infer statistically significant conclusions. The Fatality Analysis Reporting System and the State Data System were the crash
data sources used for this analysis.
The analysis found that DRLs have no statistically significant overall effects on the three target crashes. When combining
these three target crashes into one target crash, the DRL effects were also not statistically significant. When examined
separately for passenger cars and light trucks/vans (LTVs), DRLs in LTVs significantly reduced LTVs’ involvements in the
target two-vehicle crashes by 5.7 percent. However, the remaining DRL effects on these three target crashes were not
statistically significant. Although not statistically significant, DRLs might have unintended consequences for pedestrians and
motorcyclists. Particularly, the estimated negative effects for LTVs were relatively large and cannot be completely ignored.
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matt foley
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by matt foley »

Nav lights on whenever AC power is on. Rotating beacon on before start to indicate AC is about to start until after shutdown. Taxi light on to indicate AC is in motion. Strobe/pulse lights on prior to entering an active runway for takeoff or cleared across. Landing light/pulse lights on once takeoff clearance received. After takeoff retract lights that have a speed restriction but other than that they stay on. Pretty standard for most operations big and small. Thats my 2 cents.


MF

PS. Look into LED lights and add a pulse feature.
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Spinwmts »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:47 pm My personal experience has been that landing lights are much brighter than the surrounding sky and so greatly increases the conspicuity of an aircraft
Totally agree; And I'll trade a shorter bulb life span for a longer Life Span any day.
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Heliian
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Heliian »

5x5 wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:17 am DRLs in LTVs significantly reduced LTVs’ involvements in the
target two-vehicle crashes by 5.7 percent.
DRL's are a great safety feature and I feel that this report is hugely downplayed. There is a good reason they are required here in Canada, not to mention that the rules will be tightening for new cars in 2021.
5x5 wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:17 am Personally, I've never noticed any increase of visibility in aircraft with the landing light and/or strobes on during the day. The relative darkness of the airframe against the sky is what works for me. Plus, I'm not often looking head on to another aircraft so the landing light isn't that useful anyway. Holding short I've never been unable to see aircraft on final without a landing light on. Perhaps it is a case of something that seems to be common sense but isn't actually?
That's all fine if you have a nice clear background and are in a circuit with other circuiters.

It's all the other strays that you can't see or when you're working at varying altitudes in congested areas. Helicopters, float ops, sprayers, farmers, wayward flight students, news gathering aircraft, police aircraft.

Anything to see and be seen to increase safety.
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5x5
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by 5x5 »

Heliian wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 am There is a good reason they are required here in Canada...
Can you provide any evidence to support that? Reduced accident rates perhaps that can be tied directly to the introduction of the legislation here? The mere fact that the government has mandated something doesn't mean - at least to me - that there's good reasons.

The study I posted shows quite clearly there is no statistical evidence of any significant change. And I like to take facts and data over opinions any day. So if you want to and feel better with the lights on, go right ahead. It just appears there's no reason to feel any safer because you've done so.
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Heliian
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Heliian »

May
5x5 wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:52 am
Heliian wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 am There is a good reason they are required here in Canada...
Can you provide any evidence to support that? Reduced accident rates perhaps that can be tied directly to the introduction of the legislation here? The mere fact that the government has mandated something doesn't mean - at least to me - that there's good reasons.

The study I posted shows quite clearly there is no statistical evidence of any significant change. And I like to take facts and data over opinions any day. So if you want to and feel better with the lights on, go right ahead. It just appears there's no reason to feel any safer because you've done so.
Well, they should do a more recent study.

My evidence is anecdotal in nature. After decades of driving, I believe that lights help to increase your situational awareness in varying light conditions and help others see you. My motorcycle friends would also highly agree.
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by dpm »

All lights on at lower altitudes or near airports; trim back above ~6,000 ft AGL (especially the strobes, which really swing the needle on my ammeter).

I remember reading that the landing light also helps cut down significantly on bird strikes (don't remember the source, so I'm not sure how much to trust it). Still, I'll try anything when the geese are migrating.
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

Dayglo Orange with short burst flares every 30 seconds would do the trick !
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by tower controller »

After spending a good chunk of my life in a glass room looking for airplanes I'll offer this from a different perspective.

Lights make you much easier to see, most people don't realize how difficult it is to see aircraft against some sky colors.

Led's are much better than the older lights not only are they brighter but the color contrast is better between the light and the background for a vast majority of the time.

Wig wags like on the CL415 are probably the best for spotting, strobes are probably a close second...
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Re: Lights or no Lights during the day (For small GA AC)

Post by Squaretail »

I think the only time I don't light myself up all the time is flying something with a generator instead of an alternator, then one just does so when you feel its most prudent. I tend to preserve the old nose mounted landing lights only when I need them as well since they have a bad tendency to burn out, so again use it when its the most needed.

That said, I always have to wonder how much more visible the lights actually make an aircraft. I find most pilots are somewhat visually impaired, since I count on getting cut off on approach several times a year by pilots who don't see a twin on final with landing gear lights, wing tip landing lights, tip and tail strobes all lit up. Might as well have had the cloaking device on...
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