Wesjet encore or jazz ?

[Monorail Conductor]

While were talking about how much you can get at jazz lets not forget about the minimum youre gauranteed. IE jazz has min credit days...

[Saubia]

Thanks a lot for all your post and it help me a lot. My final goal would be to go to AC at later stage.
(Inverted2 you are the best to change the main topic into smth else )

[confusedalot]

Particularly striked by the encore best route to air canada notion. Naive as I am, finally understood that taking encore guys accomplishes two things; it crews open seats, and weakens the competition..............two birds with one stone so to speak.

Nasty world out there, no wonder I never made it. looks like I don't have the required personality.

Somebody please do something that this country does not end up a one aeroflot country!

Cheers.

[PT6onH20]

Particularly striked by the encore best route to air canada notion. Naive as I am, finally understood that taking encore guys accomplishes two things; it crews open seats, and weakens the competition..............two birds with one stone so to speak.

Nasty world out there, no wonder I never made it. looks like I don't have the required personality.

Somebody please do something that this country does not end up a one aeroflot country!

Cheers.

I heard the last class was nearly all Express...not a teal member at all IIRC.

As for hurting your competition through selective hiring...I think there's lower hanging fruit than encore.

For the OP - it depends if you're a gambling man. But if you go the Jazz route, better make sure you do your homework for the AC interview

[daedalusx]

Couple of things I've noticed:

The only reason there was so many express hires on the last AC GS was because of all of the original PML V1 Jazz guys that used their max 2 yrs deferment. The PML V2 is still not flowing and we'll have to see in fall how it's going to stack up with all of the 3+ yrs PML v2 Jazz folks who didn't heard back after their video interview and have re-applied through the new portal. Just because the last class have been 90% Express doesn't mean the next one will - but maybe it will. Nobody knows. Last year Jazz was struggling to staff their planes and I wouldn't be surprised if there was an 'gentlemen's' agreement with AC to temporarily slow down the flow and hire from the competition (win-win). Also remembers that a B-scale yr 1 capt is an amazing bargain for both Jazz and AC (75 per hr vs 100+), I'm sure the bean counters would rather get 2-3 yrs utilization of those crews before letting them go to AC - then when they start to get expensive (yr 5+) then offer them the flow so they can come back to 45. Now that things have slowed down, perhaps the flow will pick up.

If you were to ask me a year ago, I would have said Jazz, right now I would probably say Encore if you have decent time and ATPL. Jazz upgrade-avanza is slowing down a lot. Don't expect the 1-2 yrs upgrade anymore. WDOs have dried up quite a bit (I'm looking at you, FLICA sharks!). Plan to be on reserve for a while. Plan to live on a 37-40k T4 in an expensive city for 2+ years. Forget about commuting, it'll be almost impossible to not loose money even if you work 22 days a month. If you're a capt in a nice 703 job with decent pay and condition and want to go to AC, get a university degree, much better investment than taking the paycut to the regionals for a pretty big gamble. If you're flying a clamped out old navajo, metro, etc, just get that A stamp and go to whichever calls first, it'll probably be an improvement at least safety wise ... after that it's all a coin toss anyhow ...

Ask the ol' Air BC and Canadian Regional guys who missed on the flow; some gets in, some don't - has nothing to do with how great/safe of a driver they are - this industry is all about timing. In the late 90s, some guys went to C3 and some went to WJ - back then probably most would have said C3 was by far the best option and WJ was going to bust ... well guess who are millionaires now and who went back to the bottom of the list ?

In any case, if you're young and dream of the airlines and have the hours and can survive on such a low payscale then get in as quick as you can. If you miss or get behind the wave when the music stops, you'll be one of those guys that are waiting 9+ years for their upgrades and you'll regret it later. Otherwise it's a great time to get a great job in the corporate/703/704/705 world with great pay and much better lifestyle than airlines, possibly at of cost of job security and long term earning potential but otherwise much more fun and rewarding than pavement ILS to ILS 7 legs days sched crap.

[av8ts]

I’m top of the pay scale at Jazz and not working any days off last year I made $128,000. And that was too many days at work. Anyone making $170,000 has no life other than work

[confusedalot]

Couple of things I've noticed:

The only reason there was so many express hires on the last AC GS was because of all of the original PML V1 Jazz guys that used their max 2 yrs deferment. The PML V2 is still not flowing and we'll have to see in fall how it's going to stack up with all of the 3+ yrs PML v2 Jazz folks who didn't heard back after their video interview and have re-applied through the new portal. Just because the last class have been 90% Express doesn't mean the next one will - but maybe it will. Nobody knows. Last year Jazz was struggling to staff their planes and I wouldn't be surprised if there was an 'gentlemen's' agreement with AC to temporarily slow down the flow and hire from the competition (win-win). Also remembers that a B-scale yr 1 capt is an amazing bargain for both Jazz and AC (75 per hr vs 100+), I'm sure the bean counters would rather get 2-3 yrs utilization of those crews before letting them go to AC - then when they start to get expensive (yr 5+) then offer them the flow so they can come back to 45. Now that things have slowed down, perhaps the flow will pick up.

If you were to ask me a year ago, I would have said Jazz, right now I would probably say Encore if you have decent time and ATPL. Jazz upgrade-avanza is slowing down a lot. Don't expect the 1-2 yrs upgrade anymore. WDOs have dried up quite a bit (I'm looking at you, FLICA sharks!). Plan to be on reserve for a while. Plan to live on a 37-40k T4 in an expensive city for 2+ years. Forget about commuting, it'll be almost impossible to not loose money even if you work 22 days a month. If you're a capt in a nice 703 job with decent pay and condition and want to go to AC, get a university degree, much better investment than taking the paycut to the regionals for a pretty big gamble. If you're flying a clamped out old navajo, metro, etc, just get that A stamp and go to whichever calls first, it'll probably be an improvement at least safety wise ... after that it's all a coin toss anyhow ...

Ask the ol' Air BC and Canadian Regional guys who missed on the flow; some gets in, some don't - has nothing to do with how great/safe of a driver they are - this industry is all about timing. In the late 90s, some guys went to C3 and some went to WJ - back then probably most would have said C3 was by far the best option and WJ was going to bust ... well guess who are millionaires now and who went back to the bottom of the list ?

In any case, if you're young and dream of the airlines and have the hours and can survive on such a low payscale then get in as quick as you can. If you miss or get behind the wave when the music stops, you'll be one of those guys that are waiting 9+ years for their upgrades and you'll regret it later. Otherwise it's a great time to get a great job in the corporate/703/704/705 world with great pay and much better lifestyle than airlines, possibly at of cost of job security and long term earning potential but otherwise much more fun and rewarding than pavement ILS to ILS 7 legs days sched crap.

I like this. Someone who understands what and how this business can be a bit of a casino game.

Yup, timing is everything, and that crystal ball is ever so out of reach. You are right, C3 was the choice of that day. Made the mistake of passing their requirements and taking the job.

In the same thinking of crystal balls, had I sat on my ass and accepted my three months of pogey, with absolutely zero effort, would have been called back to a now very strong company and would be top of the list just because of a number. But nooooo..................had to be proactive and find another job. Wrong answer.

It's a tough one boys and girls, you just never know how things are going to turn out at any given operator.

[rudder]

I would suggest current quickest path to AC is a WJ pilot with a 737 endorsement.....

As for Jazz potential pay - lots of Jazz CA with T4’s of $200k+. And yes, that involves flying significant volume of overtime but the system is very well structured, voluntary, and lucrative when the overtime rate is approaching $200/hr creating daily potential overtime rewards of $1000-$1800/day. That may sound like a lot but there are AC 777 CA being paid $18,000 for a 3 day draft. Everything is relative.

For many, the CPA carriers are just a stepping stone. Hard to risk a 30+ career bet on companies whose revenue stream is only guaranteed in 5-10 year increments. Hence the need at Express to offer the potential AC interview.

Right now the teal team is going through some labour pains in the life cycle of a tenured airline. It will eventually settle itself but fastest progression is at AC and will be that way for the foreseeable future.