New pot legislatiion brings on talk of pilot pee in a cup

[Spokes]

We already have to pee in a cup for our medical. We already have piss tests at construction job sites. This is nothing new and should be expected, given the responsibility of hundreds of people's lives.

When you pee in a cup for your medical do you know what the purpose of such is?

Had a bit of a scare on a pee test on one of my past medicals. A small amount of blood in the urine was found. This I am told could be an indicator of cancer. Of course it could also indicate many other things. I had been hitting the gym pretty hard leading up to that medical, I suspect that was the cause. In any case went back and re did the medical two weeks later- all clear.

[98 Corolla]

If you walk down the street in Vancouver, Toronto, or Calgary you are currently breathing marijuana smoke everyday. This is when it is still illegal. Second hand smoke has not been a valid defense when faced with a positive drug test previously. It's the first thing employers are told the person will claim and to not believe them. Exposure is quantity over time. Though the quantity is low in second hand smoke I'm curious to know if breathing it all day everyday will result in some false positives.

[nothingbeatsflying]

I gotta laugh. Everybody has their shorts twisted around their private parts because of a dried up frikin plant. You would think we are in 17th century Saudi Arabia, where they still chop hands off for stealing a loaf of bread. The root crime of the bread stealers is the horrible condition of hunger.

Is candistan becoming like the kingdom??? I'm a little scared of the holier than thou marginal mall cops that will impose life sentences for an inflated issue.

Booze will certainly be out of your system pretty quick, maybe pot takes longer. If you had a joint 24 hours ago, do you suddenly become non-functional? I don't know, but I doubt it.

This is going to be interesting; society will accept dried up green leaves as OK, yet, they will be making all kinds of exceptions to who can or cannot use it.

Just to be clear, it's not "maybe pot takes longer". It's a proven scientific fact. And it's not a question of "non-functional", it's a question of degraded performance and whether or not that's acceptable.

Unfortunately, what one does with his/her time off matters because overall health and fitness is cumulative.

[Old fella]

“I gotta laugh. Everybody has their shorts twisted around their private parts because of a dried up frikin plant. You would think we are in 17th century Saudi Arabia, where they still chop hands off for stealing a loaf of bread. The root crime of the bread stealers is the horrible condition of hunger.”

Ah..... my first year university 1969-70 and first time “toking up or smoking up” it was like you were into some massive counter culture, a rite of passage, crossed a great divide. But it was just putting smoke in your lungs, a contradiction in terms for me as I hated tobacco.

[skybluetrek]

I gotta laugh. Everybody has their shorts twisted around their private parts because of a dried up frikin plant. You would think we are in 17th century Saudi Arabia, where they still chop hands off for stealing a loaf of bread. The root crime of the bread stealers is the horrible condition of hunger.

Is candistan becoming like the kingdom??? I'm a little scared of the holier than thou marginal mall cops that will impose life sentences for an inflated issue.

Booze will certainly be out of your system pretty quick, maybe pot takes longer. If you had a joint 24 hours ago, do you suddenly become non-functional? I don't know, but I doubt it.

This is going to be interesting; society will accept dried up green leaves as OK, yet, they will be making all kinds of exceptions to who can or cannot use it.

Just to be clear, it's not "maybe pot takes longer". It's a proven scientific fact. And it's not a question of "non-functional", it's a question of degraded performance and whether or not that's acceptable.

Unfortunately, what one does with his/her time off matters because overall health and fitness is cumulative.

Yah if you don't want your system to keep track of your immoral behaviour it's better to do cocaine and ethanol, that will certainly be out of your system pretty quick and you'll be a clean responsable pilot who tests negative for thc on the next 'pee in this cup please'
You could have a Denzel Washington(The Flight) doing just fine thanks to the body system vs drug test technicalities.
And the release of thc under stress sounds like bs, I mean if you smoke so much weed that it gets store in your bodie and 'leaks' affecting your judgement, then I don't think you made it as a professional pilot anyways. I don't know if weed will become such a big risk to safety, if you have a pilot with adiction problems he/she will probably be smart enough to stay away from pot and do other legal/illegal stronger drugs.

[PilotDAR]

Her summary was, pick which you want to do - fly or use pot. Period. No AND, just OR

'Sounds fair to me. Everyone can't do everything they want in life, sometimes a choice must be made. This sounds like a choice a pilot should have to make. Can you imagine a pilot who had used marijuana, and had a mis judgment accident shortly after - could you live with yourself wondering if your use of pot had contributed to an accident, and someone else's trauma? Isn't just better to assure you're not impaired while you're working for someone else, who expects you to be in top form?

For myself, I'm not the least concerned about any testing for impairment, the authority can test me whenever they like, I have noting to hide.

[ahramin]

Just curious, can we agree that in the current aviation industry in Canada, alcohol is a bigger risk to flight safety than marijuana? I'm not talking about if it gets legalized and everyone magically starts smoking it. Currently, what is statistically more likely to be causing impairment on the flight deck? I've seen lots of hungover pilots but I'll admit I have no idea if I've flown with someone impaired by marijuana because I don't know what that would look like.

[Meatservo]

If only they had a pee test for flying skills.

Ha, ha. Exactly.

With regards to all this excitement about "legalization", I am pretty sure that everyone who really wants to consume cannabis already does. "Being illegal" didn't seem to be stopping anyone before, so if we were getting by just fine without urine tests before, we'll probably get along just fine without them now.

Everybody, including the regulator and the safety folk, seems to think that the pending legalization is going to make us all go on a dope-smoking binge and that many people who were afraid of getting arrested will now begin the lifelong habit they always wanted.

I predict zero change.

[PT6onH20]

Chase whiskey with Guiness at a bar by yourself all night, and no one bats an eye.

Eat a cookie and watch a movie, and you're a menace to society.

[North Shore]

Yeah, but it's not just one cookie! It's one, then two, then the whole pack, then the Doritos, and half a quick- bake pizza!

[digits_]

Chase whiskey with Guiness at a bar by yourself all night, and no one bats an eye.

Eat a cookie and watch a movie, and you're a menace to society.

*sigh* Who says you are a menace to society?

However, you shouldn't operate an airplane if you are under the influence of impairing substances. A substance that hasn't been researched properly/accurately (as it has been illegal), and thus the effects are not widely known.

That being said, I do not think that peeing in a cup is an appropriate response, and I will try (and probably fail) to fight it as much as I can. An anonymous no fault reporting tool to deal with impaired pilots would be best. If I'm not mistaken, a lot of airlines already have such a policy in place for alcohol abuse.

[Mr. North]

I predict zero change.

I respectfully disagree.

As someone who has followed (and heavily invested in) the emerging cannabis industry for the better part of three years, I'm quite confident we are about to witness a significant societal change.

Cannabis as you or I know it (bong rips and fat blunts) will only make up a marginal rate of consumption in what is expected to be a $20 Billion industry. Well over half of cannabis sales will be in the form of pills, edibles, beverages, oils and creams. The cannabis beverage market in particular stands to severely disrupt the entire alcohol market as people will gravitate towards uplifting drinks minus the calories, bad hangovers, and negative long term health effects. The potency will vary as wide as the product offering, from barely perceptible to full on couch lock. These numerous products and potencies offered by legalisation will attract a large segment of the population who were not previously inclined to "smoke a doobie" or otherwise partake in the current stigma.

Over the next 5-10 years cannabis will permeate our social fabric to such a degree that it's consumption will be considered normal and celebrated (much like alcohol currently). In this new environment of acceptance, it will be increasingly difficult for pilots (or other safety related personnel) to rationalise their continued abstinence.

Transport Canada's default "zero tolerance" policy is an easy, if not predictable, position for an agency struggling to maintain relevance in the face of relentless budgetary cuts. Unfortunately their position does not recognise the current reality or that of the future. We have roughly 13,000 ATPL's in this country. A good number of them already consume cannabis and I'd argue a good deal more will as cannabis becomes increasingly normalised. In the perfect world Transport Canada would take the initiative to determine what is impairment, and apply guidelines for appropriate use. Unfortunately I think a number of pilots will lose their licence and/or their jobs before we see significant regulatory progress.

While I support cannabis legalisation it is undoubtedly exposing our profession to a large regulatory risk. I would caution all pilots to refrain from cannabis use until firm guidelines are in place on an international level. With legalisation and in the absence of random testing one could arguably be tempted to partake. However I would remind you that it is still federally illegal in the US and any random checks conducted on their soil would currently bar you from entering for life. And what good is an airline pilot if they cannot travel to the US?

I'm certain cannabis use by pilots will be regulated at some point. But it will take a number of years, an endless amount of studies, and most likely some dramatic case law to make it a reality. In the mean time I would suggest following the rules, no matter how dumb or redundant they seem.

[PT6onH20]

Yeah, but it's not just one cookie! It's one, then two, then the whole pack, then the Doritos, and half a quick- bake pizza!

Dr. Oetker and Taco Bell shares. You heard it here first!

[Back2Final]

Just hope your not in a incident/accident. Test result positive , pilot had THC in system. Doesn't matter if it's legal, how long you smoked it, public opinion and your boss will probably kick you to the curb in no time....for the first few years at least.

[C.W.E.]

Has anyone determined which drug is most detrimental for pilots?

I was addicted to alcohol to the extent I finally had to go to an addiction treatment hospital in the USA to get cured.

Thankfully there does not seem to have been any long term damage to my system that I can determine.

Had I been using cannabis to the same extent I did alcohol for all those years would there have been long term damage to my system?

[trey kule]

“A good number of them already consume cannabis “

Please share the stats you consulted to be able to state this conclusion! And maybe quantify it a bit better.

I am going to state it again. At the present time, and in the forseeable future, any positive test will be career ending.
TC can add urine testing to a medical in an instant. Employers, more and more require it.

Yep, you can compare it to alcohol and claim it is not as bad, that comparison means nothing,

At the present time alcohol has a history that allows a fairly sound database. Pot does not. And as the public expects the regulator to take care of them,TC will be taking no chances.

Forget the rationalizations, comparisons. None of them hold water. Using pot at this time is a career determining decision..

[HiFlyChick]

I don’t doubt that there would be some sort of long term effect. But if you’re concerned about that, then where is your concern for the majority of us who consume alcohol while not on the job? Alcohol, especially when consumed chronically, has very serious side effects. There have been high profile incidents recently concerning pilots attempting to fly intoxicated. Where’s your outrage at the lack of persistent mandatory alcohol and alcohol abuse screenings?

Since you quoted me, I would like to point out that, my personal opinion aside, what I posted was a report on what the RAMO's stance was - regardless of what anyone believes to be right, wrong or otherwise, she made it pretty clear that she wouldn't tolerate pot use and she's the one with the power to yank your medical. I'm not giving my opinion, I'm relating what I heard her opinion to be

[C.W.E.]

That was the opinions that the doctors gave me HiFlyChick when I asked their opinion on the use of cannabis both here in Canada and in Europe, they stated flatly that using cannabis would be career ending if it was found to be true.

[photofly]

When you pee in a cup for your medical do you know what the purpose of such is?

Check for diabetes.

I've never been asked to pee in a cup. Just pee over a diabetes test strip, put the strip in a polythene bag for hygiene reasons, and give the bag to the nurse. She takes a cursory look at it, and throws it in the trash.

[annonyous123]

I hope it becomes like Alcohol, smoke em if you got em while on days off. I laugh how some of these old skips are dead set against it, yet are totally fine with drinking 3-4 scotch every night...