Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
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Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Date: 2018-06-18
Narrative: An Ottawa Aviation Services Cessna 172M (C-GBRO) on a flight from Ottawa/MacDonald-Cartier Int'l, ON (CYOW) and landing at Ottawa/MacDonald-Cartier Int'l, ON (CYOW) departed Runway 04 for circuits. Shortly after turning downwind, the pilot declared an emergency and stated that it had entered instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). The weather at the airport at the time was visual meteorological conditions (VMC), but there were isolated showers North of the airport. The aircraft was able to re-establish VMC and landed safely at 1556Z. No impact on operations.
Thoughts? Not here to roast the pilot, but it is the first time I've heard of this happening.
Narrative: An Ottawa Aviation Services Cessna 172M (C-GBRO) on a flight from Ottawa/MacDonald-Cartier Int'l, ON (CYOW) and landing at Ottawa/MacDonald-Cartier Int'l, ON (CYOW) departed Runway 04 for circuits. Shortly after turning downwind, the pilot declared an emergency and stated that it had entered instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). The weather at the airport at the time was visual meteorological conditions (VMC), but there were isolated showers North of the airport. The aircraft was able to re-establish VMC and landed safely at 1556Z. No impact on operations.
Thoughts? Not here to roast the pilot, but it is the first time I've heard of this happening.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Better that than keeping quiet and hitting someone else or spiraling it into the ground. Even just tower trying to calm him down, or giving him vectors, might have a calming effect on a panicking pilot.
You can't train everything before you send the students solo. Staying out of the clouds is a pretty big item to stress during training. If he then enters the clouds inadvertently, I can see how he might think it warrants an emergency. It might seem silly to the average CPL holder, but it could have ended very badly.
You can't train everything before you send the students solo. Staying out of the clouds is a pretty big item to stress during training. If he then enters the clouds inadvertently, I can see how he might think it warrants an emergency. It might seem silly to the average CPL holder, but it could have ended very badly.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
True. Maybe overkill, and I'm sure there'll be plenty of eye rolls about it but ultimately declaring an emergency is there to help save you when in danger. I think everyone's a little freaked the first time they inadvertently enter IMC alone.
I'm wondering what led to it.
I'm wondering what led to it.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
It's something like 11 seconds on average a vfr only trained pilot has between entering imc and complete loss of SA/ upside down and backwards according to old training material. Honestly at least he realized he was out of his depth and not too proud to ask for help. Could it have been a small patch of cloud he was clear of an instant after declaring the emergency. Maybe (probably) but what student hasn't panicked at least once. Everyone is safe and everyone has a new story to laugh over. Pilot in question included I'm sure.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Yes I support the PIC 100%. The declaration of an emergency is the call of the PIC under their unique circumstances and it's always best to seek immediate help if considered necessary in the interests of safety rather than struggling on in stubborn silence. This pilot has gotten the message he/she was trained for.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Inadvertent VMC to IMC is pretty common. Especially if it was light rain with good visibility and then the intensity increased. At the end of the day the pilot landed safely, and hopefully learned from their mistake.
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Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
100% with the PIC. If immediate assistance was required in this pilot's view, then the emergency declaration was the correct thing to do. Many student pilots get themselves into situations where a simple click of the mic can offload a bunch stress in a hurry. I probably would have tried to silently save my pride and dig myself out of my mess on my own. Not sure how that would have gone for 16 year old me as a student pilot. My only question would be, why would the pilot have been signed out with no IMC training unless complete VMC was expected at all times?
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
The report doesn’t say he or she had no IMC training.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
A look at the airport chart shows that while on downwind for 04, you are headed for final approach for 07. This quickly informed ATC to ensure no aircraft were on final in a potential collision scenario with the guy on downwind who might be extending his pattern.
No doubt there were lessons to be learned for the pilot that we can't analyze because we can't see what it was like in terms of whether it was a good idea to depart or turn in certain directions. I have posted previously about unecessary declarations of emergency but this declaration may have been useful for reasons other than it actually being useful to this pilot and such a situation can be considered an emergency for some pilots depending on a variety of factors such as pilot experience, aircraft equipment, etc.
As an aside, I do notice that conditions in some areas seem to be considered VFR with the ceiling at 1000 feet(among other variables). But when is it really legal to be flying circuits when considering cloud clearance and obstacle clearance? Not quite so straight forward. Even a 1500 foot ceiling may not be legal when flying over the city.
No doubt there were lessons to be learned for the pilot that we can't analyze because we can't see what it was like in terms of whether it was a good idea to depart or turn in certain directions. I have posted previously about unecessary declarations of emergency but this declaration may have been useful for reasons other than it actually being useful to this pilot and such a situation can be considered an emergency for some pilots depending on a variety of factors such as pilot experience, aircraft equipment, etc.
As an aside, I do notice that conditions in some areas seem to be considered VFR with the ceiling at 1000 feet(among other variables). But when is it really legal to be flying circuits when considering cloud clearance and obstacle clearance? Not quite so straight forward. Even a 1500 foot ceiling may not be legal when flying over the city.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
The 1000' above the nearest obstacle within 2000' rule does not apply during "takeoff, approach and landing" and is not applicable to circuits. Circuits are generally acceptable anything down to 500agl if in a control zone, maybe lower.
Several PSTAR exam questions reinforce the point that circuits flown at no point higher than 500 agl are acceptable to Transport Canada, as long as you remain 500' below the cloud base. Or request special VFR.
Several PSTAR exam questions reinforce the point that circuits flown at no point higher than 500 agl are acceptable to Transport Canada, as long as you remain 500' below the cloud base. Or request special VFR.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
That is interesting. I would like to see the exact questions and answers on that one(if somehow available). I know you pretty much answered it, but would one be considered legal to be doing 500 foot circuits in airports located in urban areas?photofly wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:24 pm The 1000' above the nearest obstacle within 2000' rule does not apply during "takeoff, approach and landing" and is not applicable to circuits. Circuits are generally acceptable anything down to 500agl if in a control zone, maybe lower.
Several PSTAR exam questions reinforce the point that circuits flown at no point higher than 500 agl are acceptable to Transport Canada, as long as you remain 500' below the cloud base. Or request special VFR.
Thanks.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Legal? Yes. Good neighbour? Not so much.
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Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
This is called putting safety first. Ahead of pride, ahead of everything. I would never fault someone for putting safety first.
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Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
The report doesn't state if this was a licenced pilot or a student pilot that had recently soloed. That could make a difference as well since they would only have a relatively low number of hours and experience.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Questions 6.08, 6.09 and 6.10.pelmet wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:27 amThat is interesting. I would like to see the exact questions and answers on that one(if somehow available). I know you pretty much answered it, but would one be considered legal to be doing 500 foot circuits in airports located in urban areas?photofly wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:24 pm The 1000' above the nearest obstacle within 2000' rule does not apply during "takeoff, approach and landing" and is not applicable to circuits. Circuits are generally acceptable anything down to 500agl if in a control zone, maybe lower.
Several PSTAR exam questions reinforce the point that circuits flown at no point higher than 500 agl are acceptable to Transport Canada, as long as you remain 500' below the cloud base. Or request special VFR.
Thanks.
Airports in urban areas must be certificated, and not registered (aerodromes). TC assesses and approves operations at certificated airports. If TC judges extra restrictions on circuits at specific airports are required, they can impose them, through CAR 602.96(3)(d) by specifying them in the CFS.
Otherwise, fill your boots.
Last edited by photofly on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
duplicate
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
Glad to see that the comments have been supportive. I trained at that same airport in 2002, and know the circuit well. Aside from the pilot's concern about his own safety, I agree that a pilot, within a mile of one of Canada's busier airports, who finds himself suddenly in a situation where he isn't confident that he can maintain assigned heading and altitude, is right to speak up about it ASAP.
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Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
"Legal? Yes. Good neighbour? Not so much."
I would think that you'd be doing a student a disservice if said student was not shown low level circuits at some point in their training. A lower-than-normal circuit altitude usually means lower ceiling than normal (obviously) and maybe more importantly, a reduced visibility. A "Special VFR" day would be perfect...
I would think that you'd be doing a student a disservice if said student was not shown low level circuits at some point in their training. A lower-than-normal circuit altitude usually means lower ceiling than normal (obviously) and maybe more importantly, a reduced visibility. A "Special VFR" day would be perfect...
Re: Emergency declared in circuit due to IMC
You'd also do them a disservice by not practicing emergency/simulated engine failure landings, that doesn't mean you have to do that 20ft above someone's home.Schooner69A wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:57 pm "Legal? Yes. Good neighbour? Not so much."
I would think that you'd be doing a student a disservice if said student was not shown low level circuits at some point in their training. A lower-than-normal circuit altitude usually means lower ceiling than normal (obviously) and maybe more importantly, a reduced visibility. A "Special VFR" day would be perfect...
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship