This is NOT the aviation of 5 years ago

[atpl53]

My company puts out an ad for an F/O on a 680 Sovereign+ and gets 3 responses.

WOW. Times have changed.

[digits_]

And how many of those 3 applicants met your minimum requirements?

What was the experience/salary balance? Asking for 3000 TT and paying 35k/year?

[ahramin]

Difficult to comment without seeing the job ad but I suspect the answer is in there somewhere.

[Zaibatsu]

YVR or YYZ and just over half of King Air skipper money is probably why. I’m just guessing.

The one thing the airlines and up north and overseas have going for them is commutable positions. Corporate aviation is going to have to figure that out, or start paying a lot more.

Nobody is going to corporate as a destination company unless pay and lifestyle are there (days off, not hours flown). Nobody is going there to time build, either.

Trump is going to eff up the economy bigly soon, so you shouldn’t worry, unless it affects your job too. I’m sure we’ll be awash in cheap pilots in no time.

[leftoftrack]

so the money is guessed about right,

[atpl53]

This is the ad:

REPORTS TO: Chief Pilot, Central Region

SUMMARY OF RESPONSIBILITIES:

To ensure the safe and efficient operation of the aircraft and the safety of all passengers on board from take-off to landing
Any other duties as assigned in accordance with the Company Operations Manual.

QUALIFICATIONS AND SKILLS REQUIRED:

Valid airline Transport Pilot License
Mandatory ATPL or Frozen ATPL
Total time 1,000 hours total time
Jet or Turbine time an asset
Customer service-oriented;
Exceptionally detail oriented;
Flexible work hours to accommodate client travel pattern and needs;
Ability to work under pressure.
1000 hours total flying time;
500 hours multi-engine;
Jet time preferable;
Cessna Citation 680 Sovereign+ experience

**********
We fly 400 hours per year. 3 crew. 2 ON, 1 OFF
Based out of YKF

[Xonga013]

Those requirements don’t make any sense. Also, how many SDO do you get? Pay? Bond?

Operators need to put out better written ads to attract applicants.

[co-joe]

2 what ON/ OFF? 2 Weeks? Days?

Either way, that's 20 days a month on call. That's an ok life for a Monday to Friday 8-5 job, but for charters and corporate flying that's a lot of overnights and "sorry I can't do that babe I'm on call this weekend" type of life. Plus you want them to "be flexible" which means the 10 days off aren't really days off are they?

Are you dangling the upgrade carrot? What time do you require for the upgrade and how much does that pay, and does it have the same poor schedule?

You're looking for turbine time, so you're trying to lure someone away from their King Air FO or Captain job, you need to do a much better job of selling what you have to offer. It might be a great job, but I can't tell that from the ad.

That job should pay 60K a year IMHO, does it?

[schnitzel2k3]

The bonds on the charter side kill the mood. You can't sample without committing 2 years of your professional career.

2 years doesn't sound like much on the surface, but once you get in and you realize you are crewed with an unfortunate pairing of egg and semen, and your only option is to wait it out, it can be scary proposition.

Do your research before signing, and modify the agreement to make it two-sided (examples can include hostile work environments, unsafe working conditions and/or times to upgrade).

As far as your add, Sovereign is a great machine, pay is probably north of 65k, the trips are likely great trips (great range). Surprised you only had 3 applications.

Not to mention, few charter companies offer a full 7 days off, most offer 14/3....

I'm guessing everyone is holding out for AC and likely doesn't want to be on the hook for 35k when Big Red opens the door.

S.

[LegoMan]

I want to fly corporate and right seat on a Sovereign for 65k is good enough for me right now. Don't meet the requirements yet but would be interested in the future. Sounds like a great gig. I think most people are gunning for the big league airlines and now is a good time for that.

[Xonga013]

You really think you will get paid $65K with a 3-crew machine? Unlikely, though not impossible.

[lownslow]

My company puts out an ad for an F/O on a 680 Sovereign+ and gets 3 responses.

...and at least two of them were probably sub-400TT. What a world!

[pelmet]

Maybe they could try a four crew machine with 2 weeks on, two weeks off. Might attract a lot of people. Otherwise, it is not interesting to me.

[CL-Skadoo!]

As a higher time guy currently exploring options, it is laughable when I hear “two hour call out, vacations revolve around the aircraft being down”. Get real, or understand why your department is a revolving door.

[digits_]

As a higher time guy currently exploring options, it is laughable when I hear “two hour call out, vacations revolve around the aircraft being down”. Get real, or understand why your department is a revolving door.

Or 10 days on, 4 days off, but let us know when you are out of town on your days off

[Xonga013]

This is a good thread. Seems like we are all on the same page about job expectations.
I like this, unity!

[schnitzel2k3]

You really think you will get paid $65K with a 3-crew machine? Unlikely, though not impossible.

65k is average for a midsize jet, doesn't matter if it's 3 crew.

NOW if they are taking guys with little to no RELEVANT jet or international experience and plopping them in the right seat (poor captain), then salary will fall somewhere between 45-55k. But pilots with good time, over 2000 hrs with some jet and international, who are in a position to upgrade on or before year 2 should be commanding 65k.

Captains should be over 110k+.

S.

[TT1900]

I want to fly corporate and right seat on a Sovereign for 65k is good enough for me right now. Don't meet the requirements yet but would be interested in the future. Sounds like a great gig. I think most people are gunning for the big league airlines and now is a good time for that.

Why do you think you need to meet all the requirements? When employers post "requirements" they're targeting their preferred demographic. The candidate they choose will be determined by who responds to their ad. Sometimes they can wait for the guy they want, sometimes they need an airplane to fly now and take the best of the applicants even if it's not who they were hoping for.

Having only received 3 applications, I'd say there's no better time to go for it. Worst thing that will happen is they ask you to re-apply when you are more experienced. Or they may hire you. Go after the jobs you want whenever the opportunity presents or you may never get them.

[ahramin]

This is the ad:

REPORTS TO: Chief Pilot, Central Region

SUMMARY OF RESPONSIBILITIES:

To ensure the safe and efficient operation of the aircraft and the safety of all passengers on board from take-off to landing
Any other duties as assigned in accordance with the Company Operations Manual.

QUALIFICATIONS AND SKILLS REQUIRED:

Valid airline Transport Pilot License
Mandatory ATPL or Frozen ATPL
Total time 1,000 hours total time
Jet or Turbine time an asset
Customer service-oriented;
Exceptionally detail oriented;
Flexible work hours to accommodate client travel pattern and needs;
Ability to work under pressure.
1000 hours total flying time;
500 hours multi-engine;
Jet time preferable;
Cessna Citation 680 Sovereign+ experience

**********
We fly 400 hours per year. 3 crew. 2 ON, 1 OFF
Based out of YKF

My guess would be that anyone with an ATPL already has a job at the airlines and is happy with that career track. Perhaps you want to open up the position to someone with a CPL. I realize corporate management companies are always in the business of trying to lowball the payscales as much as possible but if this is not a managed aircraft you might want to post a salary as well. I have seen a few airline co-pilots poached from FFD airlines but only by advertising a specific location and salary.

[RVR6000]

Latest bid at AC shows 777 FO positions going to new hires. Same position that would’ve taken 12+ years at the airline to achieve just few years ago. Interesting times....